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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:07 am 
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Ditto to that oceanmoves. I'm glad you had a pleasant day out up our way.
Good to meet you! :)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:44 am 
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Here is my review of the new C-Tug Sidewinder 'sand' tyres vs the 24cm and 30cm balloon tyres.
Image

I hooked up a 50kg hand scale to the TI to make the comparison a bit more scientific.
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The test course consisted of grass, then soft beach sand, then hard wet beach sand. The empty TI was assembled with tramps but minus the drives and mast.
Image

The Sidewinders worked OK on the grass but unfortunately didn't roll over the sand well at all. They tended to dig in and build up sand in front of the wheel, even in the harder packed wet sand.
Image
Changing direction built up a wall of sand again making it impossible to move.
50kg+ registered on scales when I gave up.
Image

The 24cm balloon wheels roll over the sand much better and float on top with very little build up of sand in front of wheel.
10-15kg was the worst result on the scales when they met with resistance before rolling again. Compare the shallow left tracks to the deep gouges left by the Sidewinders on the right.
Image

The best wheels were the 30cm balloon wheels
Worst result was 10kg before moving again.
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They also left the least impression in the sand
Image

The Sidewinders did not live up to the C-Tug marketing hype in any kind of sand. I wonder how much testing was done before product release?
There is no comparison with balloon tyres and I was very disappointed, though not surprised, by their poor performance. This sand was nowhere near as soft and dry as it can get either.
Perhaps the TI is just too heavy for these wheels in sand?
As a hard surface puncture free wheel I think they would be OK but in sand it looks like there is no substitute for low pressure balloon wheels.

PS: I had trouble with the strap releasing when the C-Tug got stuck. The details I posted before re the strap threading will need revising as the camlock lever gets undone when the straps are under a lot of tension.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:41 am 
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Wow! That is definitely one in the eye for the C-Tug! I would love to hear what Railblaza has to say about your unbiased tests which clearly show the Sidewinders to be a waste of money on soft surfaces.

Thanks for a great effort there.

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www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:19 am 
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
Great testing and report Stringy!

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http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Location: Long Island NY
Thanks for the demo Stringy - as I mentioned in another thread I was wanting a C-Tug to put in the hatch and forget about ... until it is ever needed. Will the baloon tires fit in the foward hatch ?

... as for the strap, can you sew a nice strip of velcro on the end and whereabouts it hits the rest of the strap or will it be too thick then to fit through the lock mechanism ?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:32 pm 
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Location: Clearwater, Fl
That's a very helpful report Stringy. Thanks for taking the time to report your results. Someday I hope to get a TI and am trying to figure out how I'll drag it up on the beaches without killing myself.

What make is that 30cm balloon tire cart ? I see Hobie cradles so is it a Hobie cart ?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:34 pm 
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Location: Kailua 96734
At first sight, I thought this was a Roadrunner report. :wink: Top notch.

Like all good reviews, it left me with a couple more questions.

#1. Passwind just asked.

#2. Do you have any stability issues with the custom 30cm setup with its offset axels?

#3. I have to wonder how well any of these units would compare with a 1x10m length of slick plastic tarp? (Which costs $10, weighs less and will fit in any hull).

#4 Where are the HILLS?? :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:46 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Nice review!

Looks like I'll be waiting for the Hobie Trax 3 cart with the 30cm wheeleez tyres!

Cheers,

Mike.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:06 am 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Thanks all for the positive comments. :)

Passwind,
Nice idea re the velcro. It may work though, I think a simpler fix would be to use with a loop of double sided velcro around the lever lock to prevent it undoing.

CC,
The cart is my diy using a length of roof rack, hobie cradles and a cheaper version of Wheeleez 30 cm tyres that I bought on another cart. I can't really recommend them as I destroyed one using it on bitumen. I now only use this on sand. Cart details here viewtopic.php?f=73&t=40346

Nohuhu,
2-Stability is good. No problems so far.
3-The tarp is an interesting idea though it may bunch up. In some of those EC clips I saw tarp being used with limited success.
4- :lol: I'm glad there were no hills. Those Sidewinders, (and I ) would not have coped at all.

Mike,
I think the 'Trax 3' (or 2-30) will be a good cart. The only difficulty I see would be trying to insert the cart while on the water. Sinking those 30cm wheels wouldn't be easy. If they are QR it might be better to insert the frame and then clip one tyre on at a time.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:08 pm 
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Location: Lake Macquarie NSW AUSTRALIA
Nicely executed report Stringy. You could get a job at CSIRO with those investigative skills. I just wondered are the Sidewinders dead. Do they now have any use, or do they have any advantages at all over your DIY versions. Storage must be better ? Do they suit your lighter AI better ? They look the bizz. It's a pity there isn't a spot somewhere for justifying buying.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:24 pm 
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Slaughter wrote:
I just wondered are the Sidewinders dead. Do they now have any use, or do they have any advantages at all over your DIY versions. Storage must be better ? Do they suit your lighter AI better ? They look the bizz. It's a pity there isn't a spot somewhere for justifying buying.


Good questions mate. I've been asking myself the same. :?
I can justify them as a puncture proof wheel for hard surfaces but that's about it. The Sidewinders + new wheels ended up costing AU$45 /wheelset delivered. I was going to get the Wheeleez Tuff Tyre 26cm foam wheel which cost $30 +delivery so the C-Tug wheels aren't that much dearer. They are lighter but probably not as durable as the Tuff Tyres I would guess. The Tuff Tyres would have needed the hubs drilled out to fit the C-Tug 25mm axle which may have been an issue.
I'm not sure whether to remove the Sidewinders or just keep them on? The drawback is that they make the wheel bigger and harder to store.
As a long time 4WDer I was sceptical that the Sidewinders would indeed work in soft sand. Their performance is similar to a 4WD tyre that hasn't had the pressure dropped. A hard wheel is never going to compare with a low pressure balloon wheel and that's why I was surprised with the claims C-Tug are making about their Sidewinders:
.."an optional accessory that mimics a balloon tyre without the expense or the punctures. We named the Sidewinder after the Pitviper snake because once Sidewinders are fitted the C-Tug moves as well over soft sand as this little critter"
False advertising???
Maybe the 80kg weight of the TI is an issue and a lighter kayak would work OK with these wheels on sand? I'm not so sure. Possibly a Kevlar kayak... but then you could easily throw it over your shoulder and you wouldn't need a cart.
I can only say that if the snake moved over sand like these wheels, it would have become extinct long ago!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:06 am 
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KayakingBob wrote:
Great testing and report Stringy!

Hear hear :!:

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2011 AI Golden Papaya



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:25 pm 
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Thanks for the reply. That's a shame but it does make me rethink a design that was mulling round my brain. How about if you added a soft foam layer, like an insulation foam ( like the stuff Chekika used on his hatch seal ) around the wheel mimicking a soft ballon tyre. Hmmmm......I spose then its defeating the purpose of the initial design.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:23 am 
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Slaughter, the "Roids" hatch seal material is much too delicate to use on a wheel. Perhaps some similar, much tougher material might do.

Keith

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:14 pm 
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Great to see such a good debate on the merits of the C-Tug Wheels.

I have been using the product since they first came out and have used it on both Adventure Island an the tandem island.
There are some issues with the product and from what I am seeing on the forum here it seems that each product that is listed has their own issues.

The C-Tug product(s) I have used is as follows
1/ Generation 1 - Rubber inflatable wheels
These tyres were good on the road, but not so good on the soft sand.
I had an issue with them, deflating and contacted the manufacturer, the service was excellent, a new pair were couriered to me overnight.

2/ Generation 2 - Hard Wheels
when the company bought out the first set of 'hard wheels' to replace the Pneumatic Tyres, I purchased a pair, and have used them ever since.
I have used them on seal, sand, concrete (slipways), and have even used them and carried them on my big trip
http://www.kayakfishingnz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6301.
It was good to have the wheels with me at the other end to get the yak out of the water, which it performed without a hitch even with the yak (over) loaded with all of the camping gear and much more.
(Note: In this case the Wheels were loaded well past manufacturers maximum weight specification).

3/ Generation 3 - Sidewinders - Hard Wheels
The Hard Wheels are a different design to the Gen2 Wheels, there is a different 'tread pattern' which is better at disbursing the sand than the previous design, stopping the wheels from digging in as they did previously.
I find the sidewinders/hard wheels combo much better than the Gen2 wheels (above) they dont 'bog down' in the sand anything like the narrower wheels, allowing the C-tug to get up and moving easier.

Comments:
a/ The C-tug is not specifically designed for the Tandem Island, and if you are like me using it to launch your TI (when it is loaded with fishing gear) you are using it outside the manufacturers specifications.

b/ The procedure seen earlier in this thread which explains how to thread the strap through the 'cleat' is not the way it is best done, I have found that the way the manufacturer now explains if far superior, (thread through the buckle and down through the end (and back) allows much more tension, as if used the other way, when you 'jam/lock' down the cleat, the way illustrated actually loosens the the strap, allowing additional movement.

c/ I have found the manufacturers to be amazing people to deal with and have been happy to provide positive feedback and seen the amazing changes that have taken place since I have been using their awesome product.

d/ none of the products in this thread are perfect, and all have their own little 'issues' I personally stay away from 'inflate' tyres, as in the past I have had tyres 'pop' or 'deflate' on me while I have been out and it is almost an unrecoverable situation when one tyre pops or deflates and you are on the beach singlehanded wondering how to carrt the TI by yourself.
I am using the same c-tug (different wheels) that I have used for the last 4 years, and have never had to replace the kayak due to ripping out scupper holes, I have always carried my C-Tug either on my kayak or in my kayak.

e/ assembly and disassembly is possibly the easiest of any of the kayak carts I have used and there aren't any split rings pins or other small bits that can fall off and disappear into the sand, which would render other devices useless.
There are no sharp objects to 'puncture' the hull in a 'bashing sea' or big steel axles to worry about when things get hairy out there.

f/ I am still using the chassis/axle setup I purchased almost 4 years ago.

g/ I live about 500m from the beach and have a mixture of terrain (seal, concrete, hard sand and soft sand) to cross to get to the water. the Gen3 C-Tug is the only product I have used that copes with all three.

summary and disclaimer.
I have used the C-Tug product for a number of years and I have been impressed with the build quality, design, innovation and their belief of 'constant improvement' and will no doubt be a user of this product for many years to come.
The Tandem Island is generally too heavy for this product, however with careful use and avoidance of 'stupid risks' I will continue to use it.
I am not in any way affiliated with railblaza / or C-tug I have been in a unique position to be able to provide positive imput to their products and have been able to see the development of such products as the Railmount, which is an awesome product for mounting on the AKA's.
I am not a paid employee of Railblaza / C-tug.


My Yak is the one that Railblaza 'blazed' in the video http://www.youtube.com/embed/514DMzfus8w?autoplay=1

If you have anything that can assist C-Tug in the development of the product, I am certain C-Tug / Railblaza would welcome constructive comments and we can look forward to the next amazing developments that they have to offer.
Please feel free to PM me with your 'wishlist' and perhaps we might be able to help them to have the 'perfect' solution for us 'Big Waka' sailors.

regards
OldWetFish

Te Waka Nui VHF:ZMW4324
(the Big Canoe).


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