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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:17 am
Posts: 60
Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
I'm looking for tips on sailing and setting up the Tiger. I appreciate any tips from the skipper or crew point of view.

I'm a new Tiger owner, with 24 years of Hobie 18 competitive sailing experience.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:43 am 
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Hobie Tech / Moderator

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 3:16 pm
Posts: 301
Location: San Diego
In most conditions we have the mast rotation pointing at the back of the dagger board well. When we're sailing upwind in light conditions the jib is traveled out to the hiking strap and sheeted in so the jib is around 2" off the spreader. As it gets windier we sheet in the jib a little at a time so that in say 10 - 15 knots the jib may be 1" off the spreader and over 15 the jib may be right up against the spreader. In light wind I'm steering off the bottom set of tell tales and keeping them both flowing straight back. As it gets windier and we start flying a hull I steer all by feel, just keeping the windward hull skimming the water, always steering straight and doing very little turning of the rudder. Rudder turn = brakes. Most of the time as we're rounding the mark is when I'm calling for the hoist. In light to medium conditions you can sail at your normal downwind angle or higher, but when it's windy, over 15, it's easiest on the crew if you head below your normal downwind angle so that the main helps blanket the spin which allows it to go up easier. Once the spins all the way up you can quickly go to your downwind angle. Our first 2 years on the Tiger we never touched any of the controls, we just left them in their upwind setting which I would recommend for beginners while they're learning the boat. At the point the crew feels comfortable sailing with spin and sailing the boat you can start making all the same adjustments as you would sailing any other boat downwind.

Greg Thomas


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:44 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 3:16 pm
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Location: San Diego
In all wind conditions, light and heavy, sailing downwind I steer very little. Like I said before, turning rudders is like putting on the brakes. When I do steer it is very gently to come up and gain speed which pushes my apparent wind forward which I can then use to steer low, but not too low to lose too much speed and have my apparent wind disappear. It takes a lot to learn how much to come up and then bleed off while keeping your speed going. If you come up too much you'll overpower yourself and have to sheet out on the spin or main, but if you don't come up enough you won't increase your speed and get the apparent wind to shift forward and you'll be stuck in slow gear. When you get the apparent working you can't come down too much because you'll bleed off all your speed and then have to come up way too much to get your speed back up. But if you don't come down enough you'll again be overpowered and have to sheet out your sails which is slow. It's a fine line. A great way to think of sailing downwind is to think of it like you're sailing upwind. Most people can sail upwind great, keeping the hull just skimming the water by steering little and playing the sheet little. Imagine sailing downwind the same way except to keep the hull skimming you steer down instead of up and play the spinnaker a little instead of the main.

Greg Thomas


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 8:47 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 3:16 pm
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Location: San Diego
Sailing upwind
Steer straight
Head up in strong puffs
Sheet out in small puffs
Tack slow - or as fast as crew can get things done
Sailing Downwind w/ spin
Sheet out jib 4-6" from upwind setting
Steer boat in straight line keeping the JIB telltales flowing
Crew should adjust spinnaker to where skipper is steering
Let out till curls and sheet in till it stops
In puffy or windy conditions, skipper heads down (opposite of upwind) when hull starts to fly or feel overpowered
Keep mainsail sheeted medium tight and hold the main traveler line
In puffs or windy conditions let out traveler when feel overpowered
Never touch mainsheet or sheet out, like you said, is your backstay

When racing, in all conditions we get the spinnaker up ASAP, the quicker the better, and at the leeward mark we wait as long to take it down as possible. I think of it as with a spinnaker you're basically doubling your sail area and your speed so you want to have it up as quickly and as long as possible on the downwind legs.

Kind of a broad email, let me know if you want something more specific.

Greg Thomas


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 Post subject: Tiger sailing tips
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:03 pm 
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Greg, those are some helpful tips. I'm curious about weather helm. I've received some advice that says I need a good deal of it. I've messed with the rudder rake at Continentals this year (H-20) and had enough so that it felt very heavy going up wind. If there's not enough, I have to stear too much to keep pointing. I realize this is a tough thing to quantify, but can you give me a subjective idea of what I should be feeling?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 11:54 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 3:16 pm
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Location: San Diego
I prefer to have my steering set up as neutral as possible but with just a hint of weather helm. If you have too much weather helm you're always having to pull on the tiller to keep the boat going straight which makes your arms tired and also causes you to do too much steering.

I've sailed on boats with a completely neutral helm and I find it difficult to keep track of where I am on the wind, often finding myself sailing too low but going very fast.

With slight weather helm I'm able to put the boat on auto steer, knowing that the boat will always be slightly heading up to make sure I'm sailing upwind which allows me to concentrate on other things such as the speed of the boat and the surrounding conditions (waves, chop, other boats, marks, etc.)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:00 am
Posts: 383
Location: Long Beach, CA
Helm: I like a little bit if helm upwind, like Greg. Then a slight bit of leeward helm downwind will remind you which way you need to steer to save from a problem (being overpowered). That is down, by the way.

Spinnaker: There are sometimes two luff-curling points, at least on my boat. When we are excited we will tend to oversheet the spinnaker, initially. Theoretically it flies and curls okay but there is something wrong with the looks. I will ask Eileen to slack the sheet a bit to make sure where we are. If the sail uncurls and then curls again that is when we see that we were strapped too tight. If you see this you will want the more slacked position.

The brakes (steering): I have recently been sailing on a big beautiful Racing Monohull. The helmsman (a world class competitor) and the owner were the only ones steering. I was in the back, taking care of the traveler one day and was able to see and feel the difference of the helm. Our speed was about 12%-15% slower when the helm was not steady. I could see the instruments. That was my reminder to be more cognizant of my own steering. Sometimes you have to get off the stick to appreciate its influence.

Later,
Dan


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:17 am
Posts: 60
Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
Anyone ever reef the jib? Are there conditions that warrant rolling the jib out of the way when going downwind with the spinnaker up? Or is the Tiger jib so small that it does not need to be reefed?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Hiyas

Never seen the jib (or main for that matter) reefed on a tiger.
Most boats furl them whilst parked between races. IMHO the jib is the least of your problems on an overpowered tiger and it takes a bit of practice to get the bugger under control in a squawl. One tip that is to lift the boards by 1 - 2 feet which may stop them falling apart and can also stop the boat from tripping over it's self.

Also, be brutal with the downhaul up-wind. The mainsail be as flat as a board which is critical to depower them.

Off the breeze, slacken downhaul a tad (it might save your main if you fall into it during a nosedive) and sail low. If you are still nosediving, oversheet the main into the centre of the boat and still steer low. It will lessen area of sail being pushed by the wind and slow the boat making it more managable.

As far as reaching is concerned - try not to if it's really windy and if you must - good luck!

Michael


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:40 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Oh yeah, forgot - the jib doesn't interfere with the kite. We have experimented a few times with furling it in very light winds to try to get the spin to fill earlier however the jury is still out as to if it makes any difference.

Michael


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 Post subject: Reefed Jib
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:17 am
Posts: 60
Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
Thanks! Interesting reply. Tiger 1228's crew has had this discussion about reefing the jib on light days going downwind. Does the boat go faster with the jib hidden away? We too have experimented and seen no difference. My observation is that the boat shakes around to much during reefing to gain any advantage.

But you surprised me with your comment about the boards falling apart! Is this possible? If so, what conditions? And thanks for the complete answer: our first summer brought light winds and we have yet to tackle the Tiger in strong winds.

Thanks! I'll take any other comments/suggestions and put them to practice, if you have some.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:13 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Yeah, they do fall apart. It's usually quite windy before they will break. Mine let go when the boat was going virtualy as fast as it would go. Interestingly it was the leward board that broke on my boat - one half of it literally peeled away from the other and have heard of quite a few others breaking in one way or another.

I have to say I'm quite dissapointed with their construction. The rest of the boat is quite well put together and seems very strong. I compared another broken board (this guy hit a fish or a turtle) with the standard board on an i14 skiff. The boards are remarkably similar with the skiff one being about 3" shorter and a slightly different profile. The major difference was in the construction. The hobie board had one solitary strip of carbon down one side approx 2.5" wide with the rest being regular fibreglass. The centre had what looked like broken battens in there to aid the stiffening of the board. It looks like it was manufactured in halves and then glued together with bog. There were sections where pieces were glossy and the glueing compound odviously hadn't adheared properly to the other side. My friend who is one of the worlds leading i14 boat builders shook his head. i14 boards (which retails for virtually the same price as the hobie one!) is totally carbon and is manufactured using the latest vaccuume bagging techniques. I can't remember the compound he uses to join the halves together but just looking at the finished board (and even the manufacturing process) it is odviously chalk and cheese in the difference.

Anyway that was my little rant - I hope hobiecat eu are listening and do something about it. Oh yeah - do some work on the spi as well. Lately I've been running a kite made by another sail loft (we run F18 rules for most of the regattas here) and in 7-18 kts it is sailling significantly lower for the same speed than the hobie example. (Nearly 1/2 the price too!)

Michael


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:17 am
Posts: 60
Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
Wow! That's disappointing! What boat speed and wind speed would you estimate cause this separation of dollars from one's wallet? What about the rudders? Any problems with the rudders?

Which sail loft did your new spinnaker come from?

Bruce


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:05 pm
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
It was about 25 kts with an ugly sea - approx 2m chop. As to our speed - we were beating up wind sort of parrallel to the waves and were going ummm **fast**. I suspect the damage was done earlier when on the other tack and crashing directly into the waves.

Hobiecat were not particularly suprised that it broke and apparantly it is a semi common problem (I know of several other F18 boats which also have boards let go from time to time) and to their credit gave me a new one under warrantee with no hassles.

Since then I have sailed with the boards raised approx 1.5' in extreme conditions and also raise the boards with the spi.

Michael


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:17 am
Posts: 60
Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
You mentioned "do not sail on a reach." I've found myself getting the angles wrong heading downwind with the spinnaker deployed. I think I'm incorrectly judging when to initiate the next jibe. As a result, when I arrive at the mark, I'm typically high and need to reach over to the mark. Is there some way to judge the correct moment to jibe? For example, going upwind I've figured out the angle by using the mainstay: when the mark is just so much behind the stay, I tack. Do you have anything tricks like that for downwind? Or, maybe I need to change my upwind tactics, as well? I would have to think whatever process you use it would take into account the strength of the wind, since that changes the downwind angle so dramatically. I've also noticed that weight influences the Tiger's performance, with significant downwind angle variations.

Thanks for the help!


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