Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:28 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Sailing the Revolution!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:15 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2407
Location: Escondido
My local dealer, Nomad Ventures, was conducting some hands on training for their staff at the lake this weekend with the new Revolution. It turns out that he didn't have a sail available, but I did, so I got myself invited as the sailmeister! (heh,heh)

I grabbed my Hobie sail, trusty Turbofins (which I never leave home without) wife (official photographer) and camera. Here's how she looks:

Downwind (broad reach) -- the grand entrance
Image

This baby will move if you apply a little body English!
Image

Close-up -- tending the sail with the right hand
Image

Almost time to head upwind...
Image

Upwind is a piece of cake Love that window in the sail!
Image

Well, we're at least under control.
Image

Whoa, I take it all back. Where's that Sidekick when you need it?
Image

Maybe no one noticed; think I'll sneak off
Image

By the pictures, you'll have to agree she's a dandy sailor (for a kayak)! Sailing under standard rudder and Turbofins, the Revo handled quite well. There was a little more weather helm on a close reach than I like. It had a strong desire to point into the wind and took lots of rudder to counteract. All other points of sail were easy to control. We rectified this situation later by slapping a Hobie "Sailing" rudder on.

Summing up equipment, the Turbofins work quite well as a daggerboard and are highly recommended. The sailing rudder, while not necessary, gives excellent control at all points of sail. I would want both.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the Revolution can out sail the Adventure. There are two reasons for this. 1) The main sheet runs through the rear pad-eye (I recommend adding a Harkin block there). That pad-eye is 14" closer to the sail on the Revolution, and that makes a huge difference in controlling the sail's twist (look at the sail shape in the pics). This makes the sail operate at a greater efficiency, especially upwind. 2) although only one inch wider, you can actually lean out more in the Revolution than the Adventure, giving more counterweight against the wind. Also the boat is slower to react to gusts, giving a fraction more time to react to changes.

Peddling, the Adventure is easily fastest. Under sail, the Adventure is quite a bit faster (sailing) than the Outback. But the Revo has better manners and sails better (and possibly faster) than the Adventure. I was very impressed! 8)

Thanks to my wife for her patience and talent with the camera!
_________________________________________________________

I also got to take a couple of wake rides. You must have both the Turbos and larger rudder to do this successfully, as you need acceleration and control. Being shorter than the Adventure and much easier to turn, the Revo has some real advantages here. In the end, I caught and sustained a ride for about a minute -- an absolute thrill and a new record time for me! I was flying along at 9.3 mph (GPS) on that ride! The sail happened to be up, but we were going dead into the wind and I was able to pretty much ignore it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:47 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:56 am
Posts: 822
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Dang RR--you seem to always be in the right place at the right time! You sure you're not stalking that dealer and his staff? But thanks for the great report and info about sailing the Revo. And also many thanks, and congrats to your wife for all the great photos! The more I hear about the Revo, the better I like it! We shall see...
Best,
Dick

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:13 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:00 pm
Posts: 68
Thanks for the report - up to par with many of your other posts getting new high quality information to us.
Some folks are wine tasters and reviewers.
You seem to be a new Hobie product taster and reviewer!
Nice gig. How do I get that job?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: which would you chose
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:32 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:51 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Massachusetts
Road runner,

If you were going to chose one kayak now would you chose the adventure or the revolution?

jack


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:45 am 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2407
Location: Escondido
Jack, that's a really tough question. The Adventure has the pedaling speed I like and a very smooth ride, but the Revo seems to sail better and has given me more success at wake riding, and is drier (a winter consideration). Others might consider maneuverability if they go out in narrow waters (Revo); range (Adventure); or fishing style (?).

Lucky for me, the choice was easy when I made it last year! The Adventure is not taking this lying down, either! As a result of the very impressive sailing characteristics of the Revo, I have moved the sheeting position forward on the Adventure on a poor man's traveler. As you can see, I have re-installed the Ronstan block, temporarily using the aft cargo well bungee anchors, to see what happens. Am hoping to try it out this weekend.

Image

Back to the point, I understand your dilemma of having to choose between two standouts like these. The choice will depend on your personal priorities. I would be tickled with either! Come to think of it, maybe I can interest my wife in the Revo and we can trade back and forth like Apalach does....8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:25 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:56 am
Posts: 822
Location: Tallahassee, FL
RR,
Re the sheeting position--interesting idea, but I sure hope the end result does not simulate your pic. :mrgreen:

RR quote: "Come to think of it, maybe I can interest my wife in the Revo and we can trade back and forth like Apalach does...."

Be careful--you both may decide you like the same boat best!

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:38 am 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2407
Location: Escondido
denizen wrote:
Thanks for the report - up to par with many of your other posts getting new high quality information to us.
Some folks are wine tasters and reviewers.
You seem to be a new Hobie product taster and reviewer!
Nice gig. How do I get that job?
Thanks. You just never know when an opportunity will suddenly materialize out of nowhere! When it does, it's gratifying to payback the forum that has taught me so much!

Speaking of the forum, there have been a lot of great contributors, but one stands out for me -- Apalach -- his contributions have set the bar! His reports on the Adventure last year were influential in my decision. His style of demonstrating with pictures has been outstanding. As a resource, he has shared his own wealth of experience and that of others. His creative innovations have shown how you can customize a factory product to your suit your own needs.

In fact, at times I've thought he was a secret consultant for Hobie! For instance, looking at Hobie's new Sidekick one can easily see the origins in Dick's lobster pods. Maybe he is! :wink:

I am sure there have been others as well, but in my time, Apalach has really set the standard!

Many thanks, Dick for showing us all how to do it! 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:32 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:53 pm
Posts: 58
Hey, RR!

I am very curious about this idea of a traveller at the rear of the yak. I remember you and Punch discussing this idea on the rear of AI, and now see you have made one on the rear of your Adv. I assume this lets you control the curve of the sail by moving the point of attachment around? I assume this adds efficiency?

I don't fully comprehend what a proper traveller would be. My main question is, assuming the traveler is a rope tied between two points, would the sail attachment would be on pulley, free to pick it's location? Or would you rig the traveller to move like a clothes line on pulleys, and hard tie the sail attachment point (harken block for sail rope) to the traveller rope so that you can adjust the curve to your liking?

Thanks :!:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:05 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:56 am
Posts: 822
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Aw shucks RR, but thanks for the comments. Next time I get out SoCal way to visit my bro and his family in Newport, I may have to take a run down the coast to check out the yak scene there, and mebbe get a guided tour of the Hobie works! I mean you guys are almost next door neighbors! :D
Best,
Dick

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:50 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2407
Location: Escondido
New2Yak wrote:
Hey, RR!

I am very curious about this idea of a traveller at the rear of the yak. I remember you and Punch discussing this idea on the rear of AI, and now see you have made one on the rear of your Adv. I assume this lets you control the curve of the sail by moving the point of attachment around? I assume this adds efficiency?

I don't fully comprehend what a proper traveller would be. My main question is, assuming the traveler is a rope tied between two points, would the sail attachment would be on pulley, free to pick it's location? Or would you rig the traveller to move like a clothes line on pulleys, and hard tie the sail attachment point (Harken block for sail rope) to the traveller rope so that you can adjust the curve to your liking?

Thanks :!:


Sails have a deceiving number of adjustments on most sailboats. Minimally, you usually have a downhaul, outhaul, boom vang and traveler.

The beauty of the Hobie sail is its simplicity -- no adjustments. But because of that, it sacrifices efficiency.

Most travelers consist of a rail or bar across the stern (or cockpit) of the boat, with adjustable stops. The one I made is called a bridle and is not adjustable ( so far). The main sheet attaches to this bridle by the use of a block (pulley) which is free to slide back and forth.

The idea here is, in order for the sail to drive you forward, it must angle off from the longitudinal axis of the boat. The wind does this for you by puffing the sail out to one side or the other. The traveler helps the wind do this, and at the same time, allows you to flatten the sail (with more tension), thus making the sail shape more efficient.

Because the aft end of a kayak is so narrow anyway, there is no need for any stops on the traveler. Theoretically, wider would be better. In this case, the mainsheet will operate at either end of the traveler virtually all of the time.

My primary objective is to change the sheeting angle by moving the block forward. My secondary objective is to gain further efficiency by use of the small bridle.

I suspect the ideal position here is about 8" aft from the pictured location, but before I start drilling, I want to see what happens with this arrangement. There is also the possibility that, as the mainsheet wraps around the seat, it may over power the traveler on the port side -- If so, I may have to go back to a fixed position. We'll see!

There are several excellent sailing books available. My favorite and constant reference is a little paperback called Royce's Sailing Illustrated For our purposes, any old edition is fine (You don't need the latest expensive 2 volume set). You can probably find one on e-bay for a few bucks. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:26 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:56 am
Posts: 822
Location: Tallahassee, FL
RR,
I have to second the motion re Royce's. That has been my sailing and small boating bible for many years now. You only need Volume I. Volume II is the same material, but organized for classsroom use.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Still learning
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:42 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:50 pm
Posts: 461
Location: sacramento california
Hey Y'all
Interesting topic and great food for thought. I have been sailing the tandem around a lot more and have been flattening the sail "hard" when approaching a heavier gust of wind in order to "depower" the sail. On the upwind tacks this has seemed to reduce the amount of extreme heel and feels a bit easier to manage. I also sail as close as possible so that I might point directly into the wind quicker if the gust proves too strong. This "Flatter" sail method has also helped us on downwind jibes as it does not tend to overpower the rudder as much when switching tacks. I dont know if this is correct but it has helped my confidence using the sail.
I too have also mounted a harken block to the rear pad eye and even had that block attached to the pad eye with a longer shackle at first but I could not seem to get the smooth aerodynamic wing shape of the sail when sailing upwind. The sail just looked wrinkled and pinched in the area where the sheet is attached so I took the shackle off. At times the sail still looks this way even with just the block. Am I doing something wrong here or is my sail just wrinkled from been folded and stored in the sail bag..?
thanks
-kepnuts-
ps. I always thought roadie and apalach were "both" Hobie testers disguised as regular forum users, :!: I would not be suprised if this was true :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:08 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:56 am
Posts: 822
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Quote:
I always thought roadie and apalach were "both" Hobie testers disguised as regular forum users, I would not be suprised if this was true


Hey kepnutz,
That's a pretty good one, I'll have to admit! Never crossed my mind that someone might think that I, a simple but devoted Hobie Miragaholic, would be mistaken for a Hobie staffer. :mrgreen:

But, hey, if the gig was ever offered, I would be the first to sign up! Come to think of it, I believe Hobie is badly in need of a Gulf Coast/East Coast resident tester at large. I mean, the weather, winds, currents, salinity, wave action, and fishes are totally different back here than on the Pacific Coast, dontcha know? :!: :D

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:44 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2407
Location: Escondido
Apalach wrote:
Quote:
I always thought roadie and apalach were "both" Hobie testers disguised as regular forum users, I would not be suprised if this was true


... if the gig was ever offered, I would be the first to sign up!


And I would be the second! All those neat toys to play with, or rather to test! :wink: Wouldn't have to try to catch those dealer demos!

By the way, I'd be interested in Apalach's review on the Revo, as compared with his Outback and his (wife's) Sport. Perhaps one will show up down there soon! 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:32 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:32 pm
Posts: 142
RoadRunner and Apalach - great stuff, thanks.

I look forward to adapting your rigging suggestions to the Adventure Island I hope to pick up in mid-September. As I get experience I will post whatever small contributions make sense.

Thanks again and please keep it up!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group