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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:14 pm 
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Pavilion Key—Last Trip of the 2012-2013 Season in the Everglades 10,000-Island Area

(If you are not familiar with Pavilion Key, you can check out its location and how to get there by going to an earlier post on this thread: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=210)

We had our usual couple of days fishing. There were even reds around. For an hour, I tried to get 2-3 tailing reds to take my offering without success. I was so focused on trying to catch one that I didn’t think to take a picture of them. They were big!

This trip was really about old and new friends getting together. We had 6 WaterTribe participants. Cecilia had come out to see what her son was talking about when camping in the Everglades. Here’s Cecilia with son, Joshua Bowers.

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We had two more Pavilion first timers, Terry Wilson and Don Haynes. Terry is a trooper, proving it again by pedaling her Adventure the 9.5 miles to Pavilion—and back! Don in his blue AI is escorting Terry into Pavilion.

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An iconoclastic WaterTriber, Whitecaps, aka Toby Nipper, joined us for a couple of days, and then departed like a true WaterTriber—quietly before sun up. Here are Alex Oancea, Toby, Nancy, and Rick Parks. That is Toby’s Kruger—a classic boat of the WaterTribe. Alex, another WaterTribe competitor, did the Everglades Challenge this year in Class 1.

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I believe Toby has taken this boat on camping trips and adventure races in half of the states. He is an extreme kayak camper. He has kayak-camped on icy (literally iced up) rivers in the north and in the Everglades in the buggy, sticky summer time!

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Later Josh Morgan (aka TideTraveller) came in under “motor sail.” Josh did the 2013 EC in Class 1 and finished 2nd. It was his first year as a Class 1 kayaker. Last year he did the EC in an AI and came in 2nd to Dogslife. Josh is a terrific competitor.

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Jim Quinlan (aka Captnchaos) also competed in this year’s EC. Jim has developed a beautiful jib system. Not surprisingly, he is always in the lead on our Everglades trips.

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Tarps are very important on these camping trips. There is no shade in the open where we set up to get the best breezes when warm-weather camping. Toby had set his tarp by the time most of us arrived at Pavilion. This spacious & versatile tarp served us well for 2 days.

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When Toby left us, Nancy & I pulled out our Kelty. That is Jim and Don with Nancy enjoying the shade.

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With 12 in our group, we had a pretty good sized camp.

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In addition to fishing, Terry was going to try an AI. Here, Jim takes Terry out for her first sail. After the trip, she declared her intention to buy an AI next fall. If she does, she will be the 2nd woman in our group with an AI. Nancy is the first.

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Sunday morning was pretty busy as some had to return to the mainland. Alex and Erika Fitzsimmons are on their way.

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Denise and Joshua are breaking camp. Denise and Joshua are WaterTribers (aka Dietired 2 and Dietired) who competed in this year’s Ultra Marathon. I assume they won their class since they were the only tandem Island.

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As Joshua had brought his mother out in his Adventure Tandem, Denise had a stubby SOT to paddle. But she said she didn’t do that. Instead, she snuggled her bow under an aka and held on. On the return, she got a tow from the tandem Island. Here they are headed back—well offshore when I took this picture.

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Bob, the beach manager, always pays a visit. After a brief rain shower, it was interesting to see him fly to a tent and drink from a little roof-top pool of water.

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Even sea birds like a breeze

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A little Pavilion Key landscape

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Dinner is a popular event on our trips. I am doing sautéed shrimp tonight with Cecilia’s help. We also had potato salad and some delicious cold slaw made by Don’s partner. (It makes me hungry as I write this!)

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Then, there are the sunsets:

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Don got this great picture.

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Dusk

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Pavilion Key is stripped clean of any firewood on the spit where we camp. So, Jim and Don went on wood detail for the group.

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And, brought back a lot of wood

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Josh, a firefighter in his day job, loves to build campfires. Here is his handiwork.

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Of course, Josh’s efforts were deeply appreciated—Jim, myself, Josh, Nancy, Terry, Rick, and solo-canoeist visitor John. Don took the picture. The rest of our group had returned to the mainland.

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…A fitting end to our Everglades camping season.

Keith
Credits: Many pictures in this story were taken by Don Haynes and Alex Oancea. Thanks!

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


Last edited by Chekika on Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:46 pm 
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I have to say it was one of the best trips to date Keith. Thanks again for organizing (and documenting) these trips. Looking forward to next season.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Impressive group. Impressive fire.

No Haka wood in there, I hope.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:37 pm 
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Beautifully reported!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:54 pm 
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Location: Lakeland and Anna Maria Island, FL
Great reporting on a wonderful trip. Thanks for letting me tag along. I can't wait to buy an AI and so I can keep up with this fast crowd.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:05 pm 
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Keith, thanks for the great trip and the great story line.

NOHUHU, Jim and I went to great lengths to save the Haka wood from the fire by using the Hakas to haul dead fall from the other end of the island... there had been talk of how useful the Hakas could be... especially if there was no dead fall to use as fire wood...

Terry lookin' forward to see'in you sporting an AI!

Don

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:05 am 
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Video of Expedition Spray Skirts—A Test and the Anatomy of an Aka Splash

Previously on this thread, I discussed building your own expedition spray skirts (http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=285). To provide some idea about how these skirts work, I have made a video (several actually) which illustrates the skirts in use. The video shows a demonstration of the skirts on a port tack. It is a dds (difficult day sailing) with winds 16-20 mph, gusting in the 20s. Clearly, the skirts reduce the spray—maybe 75%. As I looked at the video, a number of points came to mind.
1. The starboard spray skirt is mounted a bit too far off the hull—the intent was to avoid chafing the main sheet; however, it is a bit too much. That is easily corrected by changing the length of the cockpit string loop and the bow bungee cord—both should be shortened.
2. Some waves are causing what appear to be “major splashes.”
3. The major splashes are not as bad as they appear. I was holding my video camera in front of my face, and none of the spray reached the camera. Most of the spray only doused my legs up to the knee.
4. The major splashes occur because the bow of the boat has gone over a wave and “falls” to the water on the other side. This causes a bow wave which, if large enough, develops into a splash into the cockpit area.
5. The bow mounting of the spray skirt should be higher, e.g., a 1.5” post should be used to mount the bungee lashing hook on the bow. This would lift the skirt higher so that most bow waves would pass under the spray skirt and be deflected from the aka.
6. Kayaking Bob’s longer spray skirts may have reduced some of the larger splashes. KB can comment on that.
7. Perhaps the most important observation is that much of this could be avoided if Hobie would redesign the bow area to deflect these waves sideways rather than, as the current AI design does, permitting them to flow back along the hull and impinge on the aka resulting in an "explosion" of water into the cockpit area. Alternatively, they could increase the volume of the bow so when it splashed down after climbing over a wave, it would not plunge as deeply thereby reducing the height of the bow wave. I'm sure Hobie people are aware of these options. Hopefully, they will bring out their solution in the 2014 model Hobie AI.

To put things in perspective, here are 2 pictures taken of splashes WITHOUT SPRAY SKIRTS.

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Here is the video testing the expedition (mini) spray skirts. Following the video is a frame by frame analysis of a splash.


If you can't see that video, try going directly using the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqKP4X9APxc

Here is the breakdown of a splash development by looking at it frame by frame.

32:78 sec into the video, the bow of the boat has reached the apex of climbing over a wave.

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32:88 seconds—the bow is falling off the wave.

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32:95 sec—the bow strikes the water causing a starboard bow wave to develop.

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33:01 sec—The wave enlarges and flows up and along the bow.

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33:18 sec—The bow wave is now large enough to curl over the front of the spray skirt.

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33:25 sec—It flows over much of the skirt and is about to smash the knuckle joint & aka.

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33:29 sec—The wave strikes the aka at the joint area.

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33:32 sec—a major splash begins to develop.

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33:39 sec—the splash continues to develop.

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33:56 sec—The splash is at its maximum.

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33:86 sec—the situation has returned to normal. It has been about 1 sec duration from beginning to end.

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I found it all very interesting, and I’m thinking about how these expedition skirts might be improved. I don’t know why I would think I could make a perfect skirt on the first try.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


Last edited by Chekika on Thu May 02, 2013 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:22 pm 
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Good testing Keith.

All Sprayskirts are a compromises. Your expedition short Sprayskirts do well at blocking the bow wave from hitting the aka knuckle and aka stopping the majority of spray. Their problem is they cut even small waves in half, funneling the upper half more into the cockpit. Most of the time, this only gets you wet from the waist down (mainly legs). I'm not sure they will speed up recovery from submarining or slow the boat any less than my design. You may want to download and cut one of my pattern to try compared to yours. Maybe even one half on each side. :)

I tried 2 Sprayskirt designs that actually raised the Sprayskirt at the bow to stop more diving, but their tradeoff was greatly increasing the effect the wind had on the bow. Even my beautiful yellow prototype caused me a 5mph drop in the wind I could tack in. Also, the recovery time once under a wave was much slower with any type of "cup" design which raising or enlarging the front causes. That's part of the reason the front of mine is so small, but still enough to nudge the wave aside.

I think when Hobie releases their plastic bow piece for surfing I think we will see a much higher wind effect on the bow.

Good work!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:08 pm 
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Very effective, I would say. Attacking the problem of those knobby Aka knuckles is job one. Those damn things rob the boat of power and give you a constant cold shower, when traveling at speed. It gets old.

Judging from this test, even using short skirts, combined with Hakas will immensely improve your ride. Possibly the difference between charging the surf with gusto or flinching all day. Good work Keith.

The tension looks good on your models. Thanks to those photos, I notice that there are several rub points where problems could develop. These include the aforementioned Aka knuckles, the anode, and maybe hardware on the Hakas.

As you tweak things, you might keep an eye on these sites.


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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:14 am 
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Great report yet again Keith. These reports still remain the benchmark.

Very interesting with the skirts. I really don't get too hung up on getting wet. I'm sure you're the same. But just keeping those annoying unpredictable splashes ( like power boat wakes ) away from the cockpit, makes the ride so much more enjoyable.

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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:06 am 
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Thanks fellows for your comments. Very helpful.

Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:58 am 
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Miniskirts (Expedition Spray Skirts)—A Name Change and Modifications.

I’ve decided to call my expedition spray skirts “mini spray skirts” or just “miniskirts” in order to distinguish them from Kayaking Bobs full spray skirts. I think “miniskirts” is a more descriptive term (my wife suggested “spray wings.”) This name change was first used by our esteemed friend, NOHUHU.

From my first description of these skirts, http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=285, I have changed the point of attachment in the bow. Large bow waves were climbing over the front edge of the miniskirt and striking the AKA causing splashes. To diminish this problem, I now have the skirts attached to a 2” aluminum post—see first picture below.

My experience with this new bow post attachment pointed up a problem. Here are some frames taken from a video on a DDS (difficult day sailing—winds 20 mph, gusting higher.) In this first picture, you see water being forced up through the mini skirt just in front of the buckle. Note, the water is being forced up here because (1) there is a large bow wave and (2) the attachment of the skirt at the bow and the cockpit cause the AKA knuckle to create a slight obstruction in the skirt at this point. See the following slides to watch how the splash develops at the knuckle and along the AKA.

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While the splash in the last picture looks large, on the scale of AKA knuckle splashes w/o spray skirts this is a fairly small splash and will not bother the operator.

I’ve made 2 changes to the miniskirts to alleviate this problem. (1) I’ve sewn a rather large patch in this area. This patch doubles the material in the area under and in front of the knuckle and will reduce the penetration of water from a bow wave. (2) I’ve moved the cockpit point of attachment lower by about 4” to the side of the hull. By moving the cockpit attachment lower, the skirt no longer has the knuckle causing an obstruction across the skirt. The skirt represents a smooth plane angled downward to oncoming bow waves. This picture shows the various points of attachment and the new patch.

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I have not been able to give all these modifications a fair test. I did test the bow post attachments in a dds, and I am happy with them. I was out yesterday in mild conditions (12-14 mph winds), but it was not a serious test. A real test will have to wait until next fall—I am spending the next 4 months in the Rockies.


Keith

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I sail: Biscayne Bay, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:16 pm 
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Interesting tweaks! I'm glad folks are seriously analyzing our bow wave patterns.

We did this with video while building the TI3 and testing various Hakas. I can only add that riding out on the Hakas will typically move the bow wave back a foot or more.

Naturally, the splash pattern also shifts with different points of sail.

Oh - and short skirts are awesome!

Comments, Bob?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:29 pm 
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I was thinking, if I had to mount a bow post on each side like Keith did I'd mount a V shaped aluminum frame pointed to the front to also add a cowling like Hawaiian canoes have to redirect the wave to each side.

For people that have my Sprayskirt or made one from my design, you can get similar effect of Keith's Mini-skirt by temporarily adding a wire-tye on each side to bunch together the material forward.

Good testing and video analysts!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:33 pm 
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I've always been a BIG FAN of miniskirts ! Very nice design Keith. It's exactly what I need to make. If you have time to provide dimensions I may try to talk the wife into sewing me a pair for when I'm not using the built in spray skirts with my jib frame.

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