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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:02 am 
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I have a 79' H16, with an eighties style jib block setup (pulleys with beckets mounted on the cars and cammatics mounted on the front crossbar. I've been sailing it a long time with the mast raised in the stock position, the way it came. Now I want to make alittle change to it, by raking it back some, nothing extreme (because I know the jib is'nt cut/made for it, and I would have to low pro the jib blocks) I can reconfigure a set of seaways for the main if I want to (make a 5:1 low pro out of them)
As it stands stock, my forestay connects to the 3rd hole down from the top of the bridle adjuster (or 8th hole up, of the 10). My shrouds are 3rd hole up on the 7 hole adjusters.
( I, in the past had to cut off a 1/2 inch off the bottom of the mast, to remount the base because of it hanging up and it came clear off, in a raising accident.)
For the changes, I've added another 10 hole bridle on top of the original one. Now I know that I'm going to need more than just that last 2 lowest holes on the shroud adjusters, my thought was, remove the twist toggles on both shrouds, and connect the 7 hole adjusters directly to the anchor pins to gain 2-4 holes on each side and i can turn/tighten the anchor pin to match the pivot angle that the shrouds will be with the mast, up.

Has anyone tried this before, thoughts?

Also, aside from getting a new jib, low pro file jib blocks, and changing out the bases on the mast and front crossbar. I know I can do the small shackle on the jib clew trick, and raise/mount the jib shackle up to the top of the first bridle or bottom-midway of the second bridle.

What about a smaller pulley (with out a becket) on the jib car, and anchoring the end of the sheet line to car loop eye where the pulley connects to or something similar?

And last with a converted seaway 5:1 to a low pro seaway 5:1 which block hanger is best to attach to, on the boom. the fore or aft hanger?

Is shortening shrouds by cutting, recurving, recrimping, a viable option?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:13 am 
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M in MI wrote:
Is shortening shrouds by cutting, recurving, recrimping, a viable option?


Shortening them by re-buying is the best option. Original shrouds? WAY too old and new ones are a bit shorter anyway. Even with your 1/2" shorter mast you won't run out of room on your 7-hole adjusters with new shrouds.

Don't take the twist out of the bottom of the adjuster; it's there for a reason.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:26 am 
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After giving it some thought, I ordered some new shrouds, I'll probably get them today or tomarrow, and it will allow me to put the twist toggles back in, and I agree they do belong in there for good reasons. Anyone on the rest of my questions?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:03 am 
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M in MI wrote:
Anyone on the rest of my questions?
I prefer the forward block hanger. When I connect to the aft hanger the block pulls at such an angle it causes my traveler to bind and not slide as smoothly under load.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:47 am 
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sunvista wrote:
M in MI wrote:
Anyone on the rest of my questions?
I prefer the forward block hanger. When I connect to the aft hanger the block pulls at such an angle it causes my traveler to bind and not slide as smoothly under load.

I prefer the back one because it helps the mast rotate

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:26 pm 
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I use the forward hanger that's more in line with the rear crossbar. I found the mast would over rotate and be locked at that rotation angle when using the rear hanger, do you have any issues with that?

Maybe drilling and riveting a new hanger between the existing two for our older boats makes sense?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:17 pm 
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skicrave wrote:
I use the forward hanger that's more in line with the rear crossbar. I found the mast would over rotate and be locked at that rotation angle when using the rear hanger, do you have any issues with that?

There is no "intermediate position" on mast rotation - you want it to be held tight against the stops.

A problem you can face in heavy air with not enough forward pressure on the mainsheet is counterrotation when easing the main without easing the jib. The back pressure from the jib will force the mast to rotate the wrong way, resulting in an immediate mainsail stall - and if you don't fix it quick, can result in a bent or broken mast.

Using the aft hanger also lets you get the absolute most mast rake - the aft-angled block stack-up is lower than a block stack standing up.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:52 am 
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So.........always use the aft hanger ???

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:29 am 
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SnSBuck wrote:
So.........always use the aft hanger ???

Always (like "never") is an absolute term. Nothing in life (or Hobie sailing) is absolute.

However, you should generally use the aft hanger. I can't think of a situation where you wouldn't.

When you use the aft hanger, it's very important to ease the mainsheet in a tack so that the mast is allowed to rotate.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:33 am 
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MBounds wrote:

A problem you can face in heavy air with not enough forward pressure on the mainsheet is counterrotation when easing the main without easing the jib. The back pressure from the jib will force the mast to rotate the wrong way, resulting in an immediate mainsail stall - and if you don't fix it quick, can result in a bent or broken mast.




My mast has a slight bend directly forward.... Side to side it is straight as could be... But bends forward noticeably... It seems really strange to me because this should be the hardest direction to bend the mast.... I thought I may have done it tugging on the comptip to pull it out to reset it is because it was loose... Or my other thought was that maybe I did it on one of those hard pitchpoles last year...

Is a counter rotated mast maybe a good explanation for that type of bend in the mast?


All I know is this year if I crank on the rig tension like I have always down... Or really put on any amount of down haul the mast will try and counter rotate on both tacks like crazy...


Although I never really even thought about the jib making it harder for the mast to rotate....


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:55 am 
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OK, check this photo out, which shows the bending characteristics of a mast that's just about to counterrotate:
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This is from the 2006 Hobie 16 North Americans - we were coming in hot to the weather mark and I was trying to dump some power as my crew was going in off the trapeze.

Notice:
1) Jib travellers are all the way out.
2) Nasty jib backwind into the main
3) Even nastier "S" curve to the mast, that's going to counterrotate if she doesn't get to that jib sheet quick.

The bend/break on a counterrotated mast is halfway between the base and the hounds - sideways. Ron, I have no idea what caused your fore/aft bend. It's really hard to bend the mast that way.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:52 am 
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MBounds wrote:
. It's really hard to bend the mast that way.



What a GREAT SHOT!!! I assume that was a helicopter? That must have caused some crazy effects on the wind?



And yeah... I know.. I have no idea how it bent... All I know is bent that way it is a very hateful thing with any amount of downhaul... I guess I am going to have to retrofit one of the several solid sticks I have laying around...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:53 am 
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Good feedback everyone, Thanks, I'll try the rear hanger first, I know its all a matter of doing this, adjusting that, finding out whats going to work best. Its always good to to get other opinions from experience and reasoning, for a starting point.

Nice picture Matt B. I see what your talking about.

Anyone have a picture of the current Jib block setups with raked masts?

Old boat rake and newest boat rake setups would be great.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:27 am 
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Where about in Michigan are you? I am in the Northeast Detroit suburbs and sail on Lake St Clair. Mine is also a '79 H16 that was in great condition until we got hit with 100mph wind Monday night. I had it very well protected and was lucky the only damage was big branch thru the tramp. I guess I now have my excuse to buy another...

Like you, I want to make mine faster, but know there is no point investing thousands of dollars to get it there. I would love to modify the blocks and increase the rake like you are talking about. Do you have any pictures of your boat?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:33 pm 
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ASDASC, I reside in Ypsilanti, but sail my boat in Jackson county. You don't have to spend a lot, to rake your mast, but you still will need to make/reconfigure and acquire a few parts. I bought new 16/17 shrouds (white or black coated) they are about 4" shorter than your stock shrouds, 102.00 shipped to my door out of midwest sailing. you'll need another 10 hole adjuster pinned to top of your original one. then you won't have to replace your forestay. Then, in a past original post: Optikid replyed with some links to taking your stock seaway Main blocks and converting them to a 5:1 low pro setup, and a link to raking your mast. Can be done with some stainless bolts, nuts,washers, and lock nuts from local hardware.
Here is the link to the original post, scroll through and read all of it, then go to each individual link that Optikid provided, check it out

http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=46827

Lastly, I don't have any pictures of my boat that I can post yet,but will in the near future

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