Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:35 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Small Trimarans
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:47 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 2088
Location: High Point, NC
Obviously I'm aware of the Hobie Islands, the Windrider and the Weta. What other small commercially available trimarans in the 15 to 20 foot length are on the market?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Small Trimarans
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:40 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:09 am
Posts: 115
Location: Sweden
http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/

Not all of these are "on the market", but you might still get good ideas about what you would like to see.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Small Trimarans
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:49 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:41 pm
Posts: 182
Location: Aussie living in San Diego, CA
Tom there is another one called "Triak" - I'm pretty sure I saw one amongst the EC 2013 entrants on that video posted by kyakman7.
Its not a bad looking boat and I researched it before buying the TI. Its half sit-on-top and half sit inside - I think it doesn't know for sure :lol: . There was an expedition in the Sea of Cortez using three Triaks and some videos and blogs can be found on the website about that. When you read some of the details of the expedition and some forum feedback you find that the Triak has a weakness - cracks in the centreboard section leaving the boat severely compromised - it happened on that expedition too. Not sure if they have addressed that in design changes or not. All in all it looks like a nice craft and I think it would be quite fast and just like the Hobie it can be used as kayak only. They are based in San Diego but I haven't seen one on any of the bays or lakes yet.

Here's their website http://www.triaksports.com/TRIAK/

_________________
Life is the Journey - not the Destination
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Small Trimarans
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:42 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 2088
Location: High Point, NC
Thanks, yes I was aware of that one. Really looking for something more along the lines of a "boat" than a "kayak" this time. The Weta is fairly well known and fairly well though off, just wondered if there was anything else I might be overlooking.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Small Trimarans
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:45 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:32 am
Posts: 1785
Location: Calga NSW, Australia
aussieonyak wrote:
Tom there is another one called "Triak" - I'm pretty sure I saw one amongst the EC 2013 entrants on that video posted by kyakman7.
Its not a bad looking boat and I researched it before buying the TI. Its half sit-on-top and half sit inside - I think it doesn't know for sure :lol: . There was an expedition in the Sea of Cortez using three Triaks and some videos and blogs can be found on the website about that. When you read some of the details of the expedition and some forum feedback you find that the Triak has a weakness - cracks in the centreboard section leaving the boat severely compromised - it happened on that expedition too. Not sure if they have addressed that in design changes or not. All in all it looks like a nice craft and I think it would be quite fast and just like the Hobie it can be used as kayak only. They are based in San Diego but I haven't seen one on any of the bays or lakes yet.

Here's their website http://www.triaksports.com/TRIAK/

They still publish their deliberately misleading comments about the AI on their website. I wouldn't do business with them myself.
http://www.triaksports.com/TRIAK/triak-vs-hobie.html

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Small Trimarans
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:48 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:41 pm
Posts: 182
Location: Aussie living in San Diego, CA
Tom Kirkman wrote:
Thanks, yes I was aware of that one. Really looking for something more along the lines of a "boat" than a "kayak" this time. The Weta is fairly well known and fairly well though off, just wondered if there was anything else I might be overlooking.
aah I see. Well I do like the look of the wind-rider17 (the smaller ones are not as good). Have spoken to them about maybe doing a test sail in San Diego but have not gotten round to it. They are quite a bit faster than the Hobie Islands and definitely a sailboat. I think the Weta might be faster but to me its more of a racing machine than the windrider so depends on what you want it for. Jim Brown speaks very highly of the windrider (maybe he designed it).

_________________
Life is the Journey - not the Destination
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Small Trimarans
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:08 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:32 am
Posts: 1785
Location: Calga NSW, Australia
How 'bout a Catamaran?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Small Trimarans
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:23 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 2088
Location: High Point, NC
Yes, a friend of mine used to build the Windriders and the Windrider Wave. It's a neat boat. Somewhat unusual but a good boat nonetheless.

Anything else?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Small Trimarans
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:16 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:43 am
Posts: 435
Location: Long Island NY
.. next up I'll be looking at a Corsair F24 MKII

Image

only 1600#

Image


Or, get some Farrier designs and build your own .. or assemble a kit - the new F22 looks delicious

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/trimarans/F-22.html
http://www.farriermarine.com/pdf/F-22Specifications.pdf

Image

Image

Image

_________________
Alan W.
'07 Hobie Adventure Island #1
'07 Hobie Adventure Island #2 Golden Papaya AI LadyJane
'06? Hobie Outback SUV


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Small Trimarans
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:40 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:41 pm
Posts: 182
Location: Aussie living in San Diego, CA
Tom Kirkman wrote:
Yes, a friend of mine used to build the Windriders and the Windrider Wave. It's a neat boat. Somewhat unusual but a good boat nonetheless.

Anything else?
Depends on what you want to do Tom - cruise the oceans? race against other boats? Sail and fish? Here's another one that is a UK boat but have seen some videos on youtube of them in the US somewhere - its the Magnum 18 Triamaran - there's also a 21 ft version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77rZsB4nvso

The boats are French design & built but not currently in production - they still supply spares though - maybe you could find a used one - they look like a nice trimaran .
http://virusboats.jimdo.com/trimaran/
and here's the US Distributor http://www.rowvirusboats.com/sailing/index.html

You might find this link interesting too http://ahoy-boats.net/why-trimarans-are ... t-video-1/ when the video ends it gives you a link to the next one.

_________________
Life is the Journey - not the Destination
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Small Trimarans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:25 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 2088
Location: High Point, NC
Thanks for the links. Really just looking for the next step up from the TI - more sail, etc., but still trailerable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Small Trimarans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:32 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:41 pm
Posts: 182
Location: Aussie living in San Diego, CA
The Magnum is a trailerable boat both 18 and 21 versions - I contacted the US Distributor and he says he has no more boats -says there is 15 boats in North America that he knows about so one may come on the market at some time. Take a closer look at the windrider it seems to fit your target.

_________________
Life is the Journey - not the Destination
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Small Trimarans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:24 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 2088
Location: High Point, NC
Thanks, I have permanent access to a Windrider. Nice boat but not quite what I'm after.

I'll look around a bit more, the Weta may be what I end up with. Just didn't want to overlook anything.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Small Trimarans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:54 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1336
Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Tom:
Let me first apologize for the long winded response.
I kind of feel the same way as I suspect you do, I love my TI and won't trade it for anything (mostly because of the Mirage drives). However after the newness wore off, and the harsh reality that in my case Florida the winds are typically only 4-8 mph, I found my stock TI to be rather boring to sail. I've commented before that in low winds I think I can swim faster :D .
To be honest here the reason we got into kayaking in the first place was the harsh reality that owning a $60k Sea Ray powerboat and paying $400 per month storage and maint fees just to be able to get out on the water every weekend just didn’t make any sense, plus with marine gas at $4 per gallon you can’t afford to go anywhere anyway. Just straight kayaking is fun but you really can’t cover any distance as we were used to with our powerboats. We never had any desire to own a giant (very expensive) sailboat, and the constant upkeep costs, and day sailing boats like Lasers, cats, and my old Sunfish just doesn’t do anything for me. I’m being perfectly frank here, we just want to be able to go out on the water and do the same things we used to do with our powerboats, but simply can’t afford the huge expenses involved. This is the core to our attraction to the Hobie Adventure type family boats, they are affordable to own and operate, we don’t have any storage fees, and best yet no gas (feeling good about our environmental impact). I have talked to many similar people to myself in the Hobie Island club with Island type boats, and all have very similar backgrounds and interests, we just want to be out on the water as a family and enjoy the water without the huge expenses.
We felt the TI to be the perfect boat for our lifestyle, but realized quickly the lack of performance ability and because we wanted to cover more distance (like we used to with our powerboats) I decided soon after I bought my first TI back in spring 2010 (while waiting for the then promised Hobie jib option) to add my own sails to my TI. Not because I wanted to, more because I had to because there was nothing available from Hobie, or aftermarket suppliers. (I’m still in dis-believe that nothing has been done by Hobie).
The TI is a very popular boat, and for the life of me I simply can't understand why Hobie has not offered a TI with a performance option, or jib and spinnaker options to compete with the WIndriders and Weta’s, I assume their reasoning is they don’t want this boat to compete directly with their traditional sailboat market (shooting their own foot in their eyes), my personal opinion is the Adventure market will be way bigger than Hobies conventional sailing market ever was. In my opinion I feel they really hit the nail on the head to come out with the perfect family orientated general purpose kayak/sail boat (a major home run in my opinion for all of us former powerboaters). However I also feel strongly that as these tens of thousands of new people into sailing get used to the Adventure type boats, and get real experience under their belts. I think a large percentage are going to want for more sailing performance that just a stock TI can provide, and be able to cover more distance faster. I assume Hobies senior management is counting on these Adventure owners ‘once they get the sailing fever’ are going to want to upgrade to their regular line of cats (a new huge market demand for their traditional cat market in their eyes). What I don’t think they realize fully is this new group of adventure sailers are mostly kayakers, former powerboaters, and families who have no interest whatsoever in competitive sailing (class sailing), and don’t have any interest in joining yacht clubs, buying big expensive sailboats, or Hobie 16 beach cats, this stuff just isn’t what we want or does it fit our lifestyle. The Adventure line of boats fits our lifestyle perfectly, and we only want more of the same. I don’t think I’m alone here. I personally love the Mirage drives, and the whole theme of the Adventure type boats and have no desire whatsoever to buy a Weta, Windrider, Laser, or Hobie 16. I am only wishing for just a little more capability as I become more experienced. I owned a Sunfish a long time ago, and never did any of the stuff I use my TI for, it was a day sailer only for going out on a lake and putzing around for a couple hours, that’s all it was good for, I got really bored with that quickly.
I proved out the concept of how to add more sails to the TI and how to do it over 3 yrs ago now, yet still no other sail options from Hobie. Am I the only one out there that can swim faster than my TI in low wind ???, doesn't anyone else ever take their TI out in low wind conditions, or try to cover 20-30 miles and not get bored to tears going 4 mph. I have also proven out beyond any reasonable doubt that the current hull, mast, AMA's, rudder, etc systems can easily support the additional sail area, with no modifications at all to the basic design of the boat. The bow re-enforcer brace that Jim used in EC 2011, works just fine, and many of us have similar home made units installed.
I would think that with the now thousands of TI sailors out there who have seen and done everything the current TI can do, and like me find it a little lacking in low wind conditions would be pounding on Hobies doors asking for more sail options (ie... bigger sails, jib options, spinnaker options, etc). After all almost every other sailboat Hobie sells has optional jib and spinnaker option. With TI's we are not restricted by all the class rules that in my opinion severely inhibit innovation in the industry. I already know the comments from the other sailers to this will be “it’s just a kayak”.
Personally and to be perfectly honest if I did not have the ability and knowhow to fix the obvious problems with the TI design I would have got very bored with the boat a long time ago and got rid of it (though I don't think I could own a boat without the Mirage drive system anymore).
However with the minor mods I have made to my own boat ( I had to because Hobie was not addressing the obvious performance issues), I am extremely happy with my own TI, it has sufficient performance in pretty much any winds (very similar to a Windrider 17 or Weta), doesn't take hours to rig, remains car top-able, can be configured for just about anything I can imagine, including just using it as a really good kayak. We use our TI for excursions, Island hopping,Scuba diving, spear fishing, party barge, and just about anything else we can think of except fishing (we don't fish), and are able to do everything we enjoyed and were able to do with our powerboats. We of course do a good portion of our sailing in and around the keys where they have very nice trade winds. Of course I have my boat rigged with an emergency gas motor, large anchor, 260 sq ft of sail, with all critical areas of the boat re-enforced, and have all the proper safety gear, we have no difficulty taking our TI out to the coral reefs for diving, or out to Cottrell key (about 15 miles NW of Key West). We will be out scuba diving during mini Lobster season catching as much as we can eat, scuba diving off our TI, since we no longer have a powerboat.
Another thing I really like about my TI is if I'm not planning any hard core sailing and just want to go out for a quick sail, I just leave all the extras (sails, motor, etc) on the car or trailer.
It appears I'm the only one out there that feels this way about the TI, at least in my case (with the mods) it does everything I would ever want for, and we are finally perfectly happy not owning a powerboat.
Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Small Trimarans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:23 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 2088
Location: High Point, NC
I appreciate the response, long winded or not. Good comments, thanks.

For me, the AI and TI are multi-purpose craft. The Mirage Drive puts them in a league of their own in so many ways. I like to fish - that's where I'm coming from so the Islands offer me a bit of both worlds. I can go out and fish or if the wind picks up I can sail. If it dies, I can fish or pedal. It's a very unique craft and one I have enjoyed tremendously. Mine isn't likely to be for sale any time soon.

But lately I've been wanting a stand-alone sail boat. I'd rather not see Hobie mess with the uniqueness and cross-over appeal of the Island boats. They are what they are and that's what makes them so appealing for such a broad cross section of consumers. When you make a boat that is pretty darn good at so many things, you have to accept the fact that it's not necessarily going to absolutely excel at any one of them.

So at some point, if you just want to sail all-out, then you need to get a full out sailboat. You will have to give up some of the features of the Islands, but on the other end you get a level of performance that no sailing kayak is going to provide (the TI is never going to compete with a Weta on performance, speed nor durabilty. Nor does the TI cost anywhere near as much, of course.) I'm intrigued with trimarans in general so I was looking at the Weta. Would prefer a longer boat, such as the Motive in a 17 or 18 footer, but they're not going to do that, at least not as this point.

I'm not going to fish out of this boat. I'm just going to sail. So ease of use, set up and performance were my priorities.

Until late this morning, I was considering a Hobie Wildcat, but after some things going on with Hobie, I decided on the Weta this afternoon.

But again, the Islands do what they do very well, and if you want to keep piling on more sail, you're going to wind up with a different boat that gains on one end but loses on the other, in my opinion. I'd rather see Hobie keep the Islands pretty much as they are, and develop a totally new performance trimaran on its own. But that's just me. I suspect both my AI and TI will continue to see a lot of use.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group