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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
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Location: Escondido
RHale wrote:
But the one a buddy let me pedal did not have this sort of slop. Neither does my Outback. As evidenced by several others above when you have this much slop you are going to get a CLUNK out on the water.
Your question was a good one -- this is not the first time it has come up. The forum is a great place to air these matters, to answer questions and solve problems whenever possible. I recommend you accept Jbernier's explanation -- he is the Hobie expert, works directly for the Company and has extensive personal experience with all of Hobie's products. If he says it's a designed in feature and not a problem, you can be pretty sure that he knows what he is talking about.

If you were to try your buddy's PA 12 again, I'm fairly confident you could make that Drive clunk just like the dealer's; you didn't notice it because it didn't "clunk" while being operated. You will discover for yourself that that dealer's demonstration boat will not clunk on the water any more than your buddy's did. AFTER YOU TRY IT PERSONALLY, please come back and call me a liar if I'm wrong.

If this whole thing still bugs you, you can put some rubbers on it like Kayaking Bob and enjoy yourself. The PA 12 is an excellent fishing boat -- I'd hate to see you miss out for a non-issue. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:17 pm
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Location: Auckland NZ
Just been out on my kayak.

Out of interest I wiggled the drive forward & back in the drive well to see if the same sloppiness was present in my boat and it is... A small amount of movement is possible if rocking the drive back and forwards.

I was quite surprised because I have never noticed this before and in several years kayaking in this particular boat I have NEVER noticed any banging noise from the drive when pedaling other than when I let my pedal strokes extend too far and the fins come into contact with the hull.

So I assume a small amount of play like in my boat is not an issue.

My boat is equipped with the click'n'go drive locks just like the current boats have.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:25 am
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Location: Winston-Salem NC
A small amount probably isn't an issue. But a huge amount like these news boats have is definitely an issue.

Got to try one yesterday, on the water demo. CLUNK, CLUNK, CLUNK, CLUNK, CLUNK..............


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:06 am
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Location: Amelia Island, FL
One person's CLUNK may be a Clink to someone else :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:51 pm
Posts: 23
Location: St Louis
New to the forum, but have been Hobie owner using the Sport and Outback models since '06. The drive in my '06 Outback has rocked rock back and forth from the very beginning without causing any problems. There is no play in the Sport. Both kayaks perform very well. I seem to remember reading a statement that this play was designed into the system? In any event, I do have this play in my Outback and it hasn't caused a problem after nearly 7 years of heavy use


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:32 am 
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Location: Winston-Salem NC
The very very very slight mismatch on the Mirage Drive in my Outback sometimes makes a CLINK. The new boat I demo'd with the huge mismatched drive just goes CLUNK. Repeatedly.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:17 pm
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Location: Auckland NZ
Hmm. Sounds odd and, I have to say unlikely though, obviously I am a bit out of line making that observation because of not being witness to the situation first hand.

...you don't think it could be the fins hitting the hull do you? The leg length and hull shape of the boats differs from model to model so fins that clonk into the hull on a particular drive setting on one may not contact the hull on another even with the same drive setting.

Apart from that all I can think to suggest is that if it is the drive rocking and it is unacceptable to you and you don't want to try to effect a home-made fix along the lines that others have suggested then your choice is pretty simple - you are going to have to try other boats til you find one that suits.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:25 am
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Location: Winston-Salem NC
Once more no, the fins were not hitting the bottom of the boat. The drive is rocking backwards and forwards in the drive well.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:09 am 
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Location: Escondido
RHale wrote:
I was at a dealer yesterday considering a Hobie PA12. But I noticed the new Mirage Drive units have a new molding-casting with a water flare built in on the sides. They also appear shorter and when mounted in the drive well they have a LOT of slop. The drive would CLUNK, CLUNK, CLUNK, CLUNK with every push of the pedal.
On a closer inspection I measured a new spine vs. an older version, and the new version is about 1/8" shorter than the older version. I recall also that many if not all the drivewells have been expanded and seemingly standardized to better fit the Click N Go units. As I recall, they were lengthened about 1/8". This combination would certainly create a "clunky" fit in the showroom.

I'm not sure why Hobie increased this gap other than the possibility of hull shrinkage with temperature and age. I used to have a 2001 Oasis that the Drive eventually would no longer fit -- had to enlarge one of the drivewells with a file to accommodate it and wondered if this was an age related shrinkage matter. There is another possibility that more clearance space is necessary to accommodate the recently introduced Drive alignment pins so they can't bind. This is only speculation on my part.

I have some old spare (worn out) parts with which I built a "clunker" Drive by cutting off portions of the fore and aft spine tabs and shortening the spine length with a file. It "clunks" beautifully on land in by 2010 Adventure. I'll try it on the water tomorrow and report the results. 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:39 pm 
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Location: Escondido
I assembled a Drive from some old parts, shortened the spine and lopped off part of the fore and aft tabs for lots of drivewell play:
Image

I took this down to the water yesterday and pedaled around. Lo and behold, no clunk! Not satisfied, I broke out the trusty saw and hacked some more -- fully eliminated the tabs. Surely this badly mangled Drive would clunk while pedaling, right?
Image

Not a chance! The ONLY way I could get any rocking motion from this drive while pedaling on the water was to pedal one footed (pulling and pushing) or stop pedaling it and rock it with my hands. There was no combination of pulling and pushing with both legs while pedaling that would induce any rocking.

So unless you're one legged, I will say categorically that Mirage Drives do not rock back and forth while being pedaled. Even accomplished bicyclists who pull back on the pedals will push much harder and prevent the Drive from rocking.

There are a variety of clinks or clanks that could occur -- the crank arms can clack back and forth if loose when pulling back, the fins could slap the hull (some models) if you don't have the Drive adjusted far enough forward, or the sprockets could rap against the drivewell lip (other models) for the same reason. Loose cables can snap the fins back and forth ( this is hard on the Drive).

It's not always easy to figure out which is which, but one thing is for certain -- the Drive, regardless of amount of play, does not pivot fore and aft during operation. I can't find any problem here and I think it's a mistake to confuse the increased rocking motion for a poor fit. Anybody in the market for a custom spine? :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:51 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 1992
Location: High Point, NC
Mine did and was cured by shimming the front tang with Gorilla tape. Got rid of the clunk completely.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:56 pm
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I just bought a new mirage drive that has the molded guide pins. I bought it to go into my older oasis. The guide pins do not allow the drive to seat. It seems that there was an older drive that the guide pin could be removed. I know this is off topic, but I cannot find any information about this. Do I have to cut the guide pins off? Can I still buy the drive that has the removable pin? I am in need of some options. Just got the drive on Friday from Austin Kayak and they don't know what to do about it either.

Help!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8918
Location: Oceanside, California
The new spine is all that is available. You have to cut the guide pin off for use in older boats.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:50 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:08 pm
Posts: 49
I am enjoying my new 2013 PA 12 during this 3 weeks in Maine on Casco Bay. My drive is completely silent. I notice its silence because I have a Torqeedo attached and the difference is deafening.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:33 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
Odd... Torqeedo motor sound is normally the complaint over pedaling. Noise can happen when pedaling to the "stops". Extend the pedals out further to limit / prevent hull contact.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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