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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:20 am
Posts: 26
Hi Everyone,
We've been having a blast sailing our new TI, however we are on our third rudder pin in only 2 seasons.
They keep breaking about an inch or so from the top. We have found that when it's difficult to turn the rear stearing to the right, we look and sure enough, it has broken. Also, the rear stearing is always harder to turn right than left.

Can anyone give insight to why the pins keep breaking and why it is harder to turn right than left?

Happy Sailing!
-Christina

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2237
Location: Maui, Hawaii
My newer TI worked great for a few months then broke 3 rudder pins in two outings. I ended up taking off the transom (black plastic piece that the rudder pin holds the rudder to) and re-attaching using Loctite and the breaking stopped. I think it the transom came loose causing the pins to break.

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http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


Last edited by KayakingBob on Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
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Location: High Point, NC
I have no idea that this would in any way contribute to your problem, but in any event I would get a mirror or cell phone camera in the hull and aimed back at the stern and make sure the various rudder lines are not crossed.

My boat was very difficult to steer and upon taking an interior photo, I found two lines crossed on the starboard side, one have to travel up and over the other, then back down to its attachment point. Straightening the lines out greatly eased the pressure required to turn the rudder.

Such line crossing could, possibly, just maybe, put undue stress on rudder alignment and weaken the gudgeon pin. Maybe. Perhaps.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:03 pm 
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Thanks very much guys,
i will first look with a mirror, then if that all looks good, will look at the black piece.
I hope it's that simple.

Thanks!
-Chris

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Crescendo34 :
I have also broken quite a few rudder pins on my TI. A couple things that I think can contribute to the breakage, just as suggestions to keep an eye on.

The entire boat grows and shrinks an inch or two in the heat and cold, if the rudder lines were adjusted when it was 60 degrees, and the boat experiences 80 degrees, the rudder lines become way too tight (like a piano string), and at least on one occasion was what broke my rudder pin. You can tell if it's too tight because the steering is difficult, and tends to steer better to one side verses the other. A good indicator of this is if the rudder pin breaks at the top (vs the bottom, which is the most likely point to break).

I have accidentally bumped the rudders against the bottom several times while launching. This damages the rudder pin but doesn't usually break it. In my case it waits patiently until I am out on the water and need it most to brake completely. On several occasions now I noticed my steering getting a little harder, so I stopped the boat and inspected the rudder pin, It was stressed and maybe halfway broken and had to be replaced. It had not failed yet but first time the damaged pin gets over stressed it will break the rest of the way (this is the situation I suspect you are experiencing with the hard steering).

After much study of the circumstances I can safely state the all 6 of my rudder pin failures were all self induced caused by stuff that I did, not necessarily a design flaw.
3 pins were broken at launch site when I was backing the boat into the water and the rudder fell, breaking the pin. ( now I always leave it cleated until I'm sure the water is deep enough). Only one was obvious at the launch site, the other two failed out in the water a few minutes later.
2 pins I'm pretty sure broke because I had the rudder lines too tight (they broke at the top)
1 pin I was barreling downwind with all my extra sails out (probably 17-18 mph) and tried to do a jibe by cranking the rudder full to the right, at that speed the rudder pin snapped and I heard a loud pop and the rudder flew up into the air, 'don't do that' the stress on the rudder at those speeds is too great, even if I had a steel rudder pin installed, I would have ripped off the transom.

Since becoming aware of the problem, and inspecting the rudder and steering lines every time I go out now, plus making sure I cleat the rudder up anytime I'm near shallow water, I haven't broke any pins in over 6 months now.

I have Skype on my cell phone, what I did to look into the hull was tape my cell phone on a stick and shoved it into the hull (of course with the hull lit up), and watched the video feed with my other cell phone, worked out great.
Hope this helps you
Bob


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:35 pm
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Location: Mt Kuring-Gai, NSW, Australia
I personally think the rudder PIN is the biggest concern with the TI.
I have broken several, including one breaking as I arrived to shore
and lifted the rudder - still don't know what actually caused that one,
but obviously it was weakened somewhere along the line.

I understand the need for a point of weekness in the rudder
to protect the hull and rudder mechanism, but it seems such a common
cause of failure that perhaps it should be replaced with some
kind of hinge or snap out - snap back mechanism, that doesn't result
in a broken consumable replacement piece, each time it happens.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:11 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
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Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
While it sounds like a good idea, I suspect the engineering complexities would be costly. On the other hand, I have broken only 2 TI pins in over 200 trips to date.

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2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM"
www.scenefromabove.com.au


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:20 am
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Thanks for the info, I took photos of the inside and all looks good with the lines. I too think it could be that the rudder was not fully in the down position and that may have created a lot of tension. These are all good ideas and will check them all out.

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9125
Location: Oceanside, California
You have the latest rudder system (2 years now)? New boat? Rudders stand straight up in the air when in the up position. Older rudders had the Mirage Twist and Stow which laid flat on the deck.

Right hand steering issues with that rudder were related to holding the rudder down with the cleat provided. If not cleated down, the boat looses steering when trying to turn right... the rudder starts rotating up due to water flow loads.

All older style rudders are eligible for a no charge retrofit if that is what you have:

http://www.hobiecat.com/articles/tandem-island-rudder-update,23/

Or maybe the rudder control line are simply not adjusted correctly. Steering handles should be angled to the right with the rudder centered. Find the mid point in the handle turning radius, then adjust lines to center the rudder.

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