Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:51 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:42 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 5:34 am
Posts: 253
Looks like other manufacturers are coming up with some nice seating solutions, re: OT Predator 13. When can we expect something like a Vantage seat for the Outback, Revos, etc? This would require a major mold update, but would be nice for buyers who don't have $3,000 to spend on a PA.


Last edited by dregsfan on Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:18 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:27 pm
Posts: 464
How will it affect stability though?
My opinion only: Raising the center of gravity is acceptable on an inshore kayak like a Jackson Coosa/Cuda or on a barge/boat like the ProAngler, but on a smaller sea-worthy craft like a Revolution 11/13 I would not want to sit higher and feel any more tippy than I already do.
The Outback's width might make for an easier design revision to allow a vantage-type seat though.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:24 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 5:34 am
Posts: 253
The tops of the molds would need major reworks, but the OB, R13 and Sport should be doable.



Jcanracer wrote:
How will it affect stability though?
My opinion only: Raising the center of gravity is acceptable on an inshore kayak like a Jackson Coosa/Cuda or on a barge/boat like the ProAngler, but on a smaller sea-worthy craft like a Revolution 11/13 I would not want to sit higher and feel any more tippy than I already do.
The Outback's width might make for an easier design revision to allow a vantage-type seat though.


Last edited by dregsfan on Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:47 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:54 pm
Posts: 70
This is one department hobie is definitely falling behind on......but if I had to gamble, I'd bet that they are listening to what there customers have to say!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:09 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:06 am
Posts: 727
Location: Amelia Island, FL
Understand the dealer show is next week. I heard.............. :roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:11 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 5:34 am
Posts: 253
The Outdoor Retailer show in SLC is next week.

islandspeed2001 wrote:
Understand the dealer show is next week. I heard.............. :roll:


Last edited by dregsfan on Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:18 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:37 am
Posts: 93
Location: Lafayette, La, USA
I got tired of looking and waiting, so recently I took my Native seat apart and made a quick frame and mounted on Revo13. Did ok, but wanted something less jury rigged.

Today I went to dealer for other stuff and he mentioned some were dropping the Jackson seat right into the Revo types, we testfitted one, not bad at all. I bought the seat for 169 and bungee'd it down in my Revo tonight, maybe try it tomorrow.

I too wish Hobie would solve this issue for those of us that love the lighter fast boats but like comfy all day seats. It cant be that hard to build a proper frame and mesh type seat to fit those seatwells. Bet they would sell so many, the PA sales might go down...hmmmmm.

_________________
2010 Hobie Revolution *sold
2010 Hobie Outback
One Ocean Storm cedar stripbuilt
2009 Native Ultimate 12


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:29 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2379
Location: Escondido
Here's the problem -- the higher seat produces a higher center of gravity. Even with its 36" beam, the PA 12 becomes unstable with the seat in the higher position in sudden turns. Paulwinkel posted this picture last year in his review of the PA 12 showing a near capsize in a sharp turn (his friend subsequently did capsize the boat):
Image

A modified version of the seat might be workable in the wider kayaks, but I doubt that Hobie is willing to compromise safety for comfort. Hopefully they can bring at least some elements of the seat into the kayak line.

In spite of its great reviews, the seat has one other potential problem for kayakers -- raised armrests. They would be hard to get rid of since they conveniently hold some of the seat adjustment controls that make the seat so comfortable. Yet with them, side entry into the boats would be difficult and sitting side saddle (useful for instance in accessing the rear cargo well) would be out of the question.

Overcoming these limitations would be quite an engineering challenge, But then, the seat itself is a remarkable engineering achievement, both in and out of the boat! For those who aren't familiar with it's capabilities, it has an adjustable seat bottom, adjustable seat back, adjustable lumbar support, adjustable height, breathable mesh fabric, flip up bottom for standing and leaning against and foldable top for compact transport. Best of all, it is easily removable to use as a beach or lawn chair. In that capacity, you can also rock back on it and use it as a rocker. Construction is anodized aluminum, stainless steel and double layered nylon mesh for maritime use, and has a 300lb. capacity (I think). It was designed by Hobie engineers and is built in the USA at the Hobie factory.

No doubt, the Vantage seat shows Hobie's commitment to our comfort. It will be interesting to see what they may be able to come up with! 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:12 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 5:34 am
Posts: 253
I never said to use the Vantage seat, I said Vantage-type seat. Obviously, you would not have armrests and the seat would look and function very differently. Doesn't seem to be a problem for other manufacturers to install a raised, tube-frame seat in their boats. I hope that Hobie doesn't shy away from doing this, fearing that it would hurt PA sales. If they don't do it, potential OB, Sport and R13 buyers may just buy another brand.


Last edited by dregsfan on Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:18 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:12 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Columbia, MD
I'd be happy with a seat that keeps my butt dry & doesn't twist. Those are the two things that make my ride most uncomfortable. Even keeping the seat bottom an inch above deck would allow water to drain away. The thin "spine" on the standard seat twists way too easily. Seems good for paddling but counterintuitive for pedaling. I'm no expert on ergonomics though!

Once I get the seat set where I like it I DON'T need it to be easily adjustable.

The extreme adjustability of the Vantage seat strikes me as targeting A.D.D. fishermen. I have mental images of PA owners adjusting their car seats everytime they get on the highway or go uphill, and tweaking their Lazy Boys evertime they change channels from football to CNN :D !


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:33 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1168
Location: sarasota,fl
Most of the Hobie yaks have similar seats including the tandem island. Sometimes we are out for long periods of time on the TI and the seat bottom padding is very thin and becomes uncomfortable, and if any water gets into the seat well, you are sitting in it until it drains (as long as you remember to open the scupper drain holes). What I did was take a 1 1/2 inch thick latex foam pool mattress and cut it up so it fits under each seat pad bottom, it has a thick rubber coating on the outside so it's quite durable (I've been using mine for a couple years now using them every weekend all year round).

I just have the pads placed under each seat but they could also be lashed to the seat bottom, or both together (seat bottom and pad) could be put into a mesh bag (the type they use for lobster fishing) and pull the draw string tight if someone wanted it not to move around, though it actually stays in place pretty good without anything. Actually double stick tape would also probably work nicely.
The other thing the pad does is if any water gets into the seat well, it keeps me above the water until it drains. Actually as long as you have spray skirts on a TI you actually stay pretty dry inside believe it or not.
The mattress pad I bought at the pool store has a textured surface on one side, I put that side facing down so water can still get to the drain holes. I think it was around a hundred bucks at the pool store, but you can get 6 or 8 seat pads from one pool mattress, We already had one that we use in the pool (6 or 7 years old) and it was getting ratty looking so I used that for my boat, Wife was only mad at me for few days until I bought her a brand new mattress.

When using the TI in Kayak mode it doesn't seem to affect the stability. We sold all of our other Hobie kayaks and only just have the TI anymore, but I did use something similar on our old Revolutions, and Oasis and it didn't seem to affect stability.
I think Hobie sells something similar I think their called I-comfort seat pads, haven't tried them but they look like they would do the job.

It would be cool to have a 12 way all electric heated leather reclining lounge chair type seat (with foot rest), but I'd be falling asleep like I do in the lounge chairs at home, then get lost at sea (LOL).

This actually has worked out quite well for us, and I am not wanting for anything else.
Hope this helps
Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:40 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 5:34 am
Posts: 253
LMAO!!!

Gas Yakker wrote:
The extreme adjustability of the Vantage seat strikes me as targeting A.D.D. fishermen. I have mental images of PA owners adjusting their car seats everytime they get on the highway or go uphill, and tweaking their Lazy Boys evertime they change channels from football to CNN :D !

_________________
Southwest Hobie Island Club
http://www.facebook.com/southwesthic
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:08 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:12 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Columbia, MD
Thanks for the info Bob.

I've tried various pads over the years & for me the only solution seems to be to actually elevate the seat bottom & have it be made of some kind of breathable fabric.

I currently have a Skwoosh high back seat with the Hobie pad mounted under the Skwoosh gel pad. Solves the back twist issue & gives a little elevation, but the Hobie pad just sucks up water & once it gets wet it stays wet.

I'm not looking for a completely dry ride, but it would be nice to let air circulate around the pad & let water drain away!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:04 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1168
Location: sarasota,fl
Gas Yakker:

Here is the mattress pad we bought at Leslies pool supply ( http://www.lesliespool.com/Home/Floats- ... 76918.html ). If you don't already have an old one it might be a little pricy to sacrifice for just a yak seat, but I'm sure there are other types of foam and pads that will work just as well. (ie... neighbors pool, local resorts, etc... just don't get caught)

Here is a pic of my wife's new mattress pad after I got in trouble for destroying hers.
Image

Here is a pic of one of my seats, I took the mesh bag off one of them and the cushion so you can see what they look like un-assembled.
Image

The mesh bag is pretty common and can be bought in any swimming or scuba supply store, we have tons of them laying around left over from lobster fishing. Just make sure the seat fits into the bag.

The bag was very long so I just tucked the excess under the seat and it works great for storing my navigation charts. I just slide the bag over the seat bottom, and the cushion and synch up the pull string and I'm all set.
Image

Like I said I've been using this setup for quite a while now and it is very comfortable for us, and easy to rinse off and dry. One other thing I always do is when I put the straps that hold the seat in on each side, I always put at least one twist into the strap before attaching, it helps keep the straps from slipping.

Hope this helps
Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:43 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:12 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Columbia, MD
Thanks again Bob. I'll look into a second hand pool mattress pad (yuck!).

Those lobster bags are nice. Don't have a lot of call for them up here on the Chesapeake, but I'm sure a substitute can be found.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group