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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:57 am 
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Location: Amelia Island, FL
mmiller wrote:
I believe we have a few new things coming for the issue... I can't speak of details at the moment.


Sounds like someone has been listening :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

Looking forward to hear about this solution. Soon????


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:24 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
I believe we have a few new things coming for the issue... I can't speak of details at the moment.


Hopefully its a mod that will fit on earlier models


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:34 pm 
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I also have a PA12, with the same steering issues, always having to keep my hand on the steering drives me nuts. Now I also am a rider of an Outback for the last 5 years and I added the bigger rudder, that thing steers great and straight and turns on a dime.

When I got my PA12 boat I didn't think the steering would turn on a dime, but I did expect it to run a straight line. I am a sailor and I took cussing to the next level. Please Matt and the Hobie Staff, please when you fix this or mod it, send me the fix and I will order it on the spot.

I did keep my outback and I use it when I fish in a lot of current and waves, I use the PA12 in calmer waters, that is the only thing I can do now until the fix comes, as always Hobie Staff thanks for listening.

R/Mack


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:37 am 
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mack52 wrote:
When I got my PA12 boat I didn't think the steering would turn on a dime, but I did expect it to run a straight line.


That is actually kinda opposite of the intention of the PA12 and 14.

Both were designed for tight turns in small spaces. Just as in cars or ... anything. It is hard to make both work well. 4x4 trucks are a pain down the highway and a limo isn't going to make a U turn on a narrow street.

However... keeping the control lines tight and limiting the amount of input to the steering control (not over-steering) is important to proper handling. The rudders are sometimes riding high and have less surface in the water (depending on how the boat is loaded). The reduced surface can be turned and lose water flow. Be gentle.

If we do come up with an improvement for the steering that can be used on older boats, we certainly will make it available.

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Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:12 am 
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Location: Lake Park, GA
Matt,

Thanks for interacting in the discussion. Your feedback is always greatly appreciated. Like some of the others, I really don't have any issues with the steering of the PA14, either with my 2012 or the new 2013 model. The suggestions mentioned here have been innovative and helpful from a lot of creative folks. That's the beauty of this forum.

I'm sure a lot of the factors such as loading, wind conditions, surface conditions, etc. factor in just as others have suggested.

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USAF (retired)

2013 Pro Angler 14 - Dune
2012 Pro Angler 14 - Dune


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:55 am 
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Location: Amelia Island, FL
My problem is that my PA 12 won't steer at all :!: The rudder has seized and won't turn at all. It is so seized we can't even get the rudder shaft to drop out the bottom of the kayak.

Not to worry, my dealer and Hobie are working on the problem. All will be well soon :!:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:29 pm 
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Well Matt it might be designed to turn on a dime, it doesn't, and like many others have posted it will not steer straight, has nothing to do with over steering or adjustments, my guess is just plain and simple, the rudder is not the right size for this boat. I bet a dollar to a doughnut that if you make the rudder a little longer say two inches and about 1 1/2 inches wider it would be smooth sailing. I saw on this thread where the guy designed his own and it work like a champ. What the heck, I am going to do what reeltime123 did and have my buddy make a different rudder and field test it, I will get back to you Hobie Staff. And I do not front load the boat, you are 100 percent right it will make it worse, but, even when I back load the back of boat heavy, it still wont steer straight.

thanks for listing :D

R/Mack


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:33 pm 
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Location: High Point, NC
I currently own 13 non-motorized boats of all descriptions. My PA14 steers as well as any of them.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:24 am 
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Tom, we are not talking about the PA14, only the PA12?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:45 am 
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There's nothing wrong with the steering on the PA12. You simply cannot point a boat and expect it to travel in a straight line. There are too many outside influences working on the hull. To get the boat, any boat, to go in a straight line or along a straight course, you have to maintain constant input to the tiller/rudder.

The only thing rudder size tends to affect is minimum steerage speed, but the larger the rudder the more the nose of the boat will be blown around in the wind due to the increase in underwater surface on the stern of the boat.

Steerage: The slowest speed at which a vessel can go and still keep its head on a desired course.

Steerageway: A rate of speed sufficient to maintain steering control of a vessel without resorting to other means.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:06 am 
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I have been kayaking and fishing for the past 12 years and have used and owned many different types of kayaks. After using a PA12 for the last 5 months here are a couple of opinions I have. First it is almost the perfect freshwater boat. Very comfortable, plenty of room, plenty of storage, easy to stand in even for this old fat guy. It is also great in flat or small chop saltwater. That being said, when it comes to a heavier chop, following sea or strong current, I believe that the PA12's steering is bad enough to be called hazardous. It is very slow to react and once it does it reacts to fast and almost wants to spin. Beach launches and landings in anything more than tiny surf is also an adventure. I know I will get feed back that I don't know how to handle the boat but let me assure you I have been around long enough to know that this needs to be addressed.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:54 am 
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Frogmanch wrote:
I have been kayaking and fishing for the past 12 years and have used and owned many different types of kayaks. After using a PA12 for the last 5 months here are a couple of opinions I have. First it is almost the perfect freshwater boat. Very comfortable, plenty of room, plenty of storage, easy to stand in even for this old fat guy. It is also great in flat or small chop saltwater. That being said, when it comes to a heavier chop, following sea or strong current, I believe that the PA12's steering is bad enough to be called hazardous. It is very slow to react and once it does it reacts to fast and almost wants to spin. Beach launches and landings in anything more than tiny surf is also an adventure. I know I will get feed back that I don't know how to handle the boat but let me assure you I have been around long enough to know that this needs to be addressed.


No fight from me on this Frogmanach. I believe this is the case with many short boats in swell and especially following sea conditions. Even larger sailing boats are a hand full to sail down swell.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:42 am 
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I certainly don't ever think that the PA12 will track or handle like a Revolution or Outback (I have had both). Because of its flat bottom and high gunnels, it will always be affected by the wind and current more than a standard kayak. I do however think there could be a vast improvement by moving the rudder to the stern. I think with very little engineering you could come up with a retro fit kit to do this.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:51 pm 
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As someone suggested when drifting either with current or wind I found the rudder much more responsive when the drive blades were horizontal to the hull. I ran into a situation I still haven't quite figured out, I was fishing in a creek which separated two marinas leading into a large harbor. I had just caught a keeper fluke and pedaled back and dropped my rig. I felt a tap and set the hook, upon feeling the weight this was going to be a large fluke. My fluke took off taking drag, so as this fish was taking me for a ride, I was trying to steer away from boats and pilings. So I turned the rudder in the direction of the fish and the line but it did not help. The fish headed to the two o'clock position and I turned the rudder accordingly and my PA went in the 11 o'clock direction. I guess I should have re tracked the rudder and made the blades horizontal. It ended up being a large cow nosed ray.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:50 pm 
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I love my PA but my two cents is it doesn't really go straight well at all... I know wind, current etc but I've been out in mine a few times now in *very* still conditions and its still more of a fluke if I get it going straight and my steering seems a bit jumpy so my adjustments aren't terribly precise, though I try.

I thought I had figured it out, if I leaned over it would turn but no, that seemed to be wishful thinking. I've wondered if the amas set high to no drag when centered, if you leaned over, it would provide the drag to turn it slightly and if I could maybe just hang something off the sides just the right length that may do something similar...

At least it would be hands free course correction? Can't think of anything yet to try it with anyway.


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