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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:27 am 
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hobie18rich wrote:
Johan !! wrote:
Also F18,s starting to foil

http://youtu.be/taJYT4eAiWE


That is not a F-18. No where near being a class legal boat. Light hulls, carbon beams, carbon mast, wide beams, J rudders, S/J boards, illegal sail cut. That is a completely different boat that shares the same profile and part of the name with a F-18.


That's why I suggested a new boat. The problem with existing classes is you tend to alienate the existing sailors as you need to change the rules radically.

I also feel that for inland sailing 18 foot is a bit unfriendly on medium sized lakes as the beam and speed make it difficult to use without intimidating or clashing with other water users.

At my local lake a while ago, someone launched a Tornado, and no one else dared venture out! Even the lake owners were talking about banning it.

A 15-16 foot cat though with its smaller beam is far more inland water friendly.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:48 am 
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Quote:
That is not a F-18. No where near being a class legal boat. Light hulls, carbon beams, carbon mast, wide beams, J rudders, S/J boards, illegal sail cut. That is a completely different boat that shares the same profile and part of the name with a F-18.


I,didnt say it,s class legal, but the base is a F18 Phantom cat

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:46 am 
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Location: Northfield Minnesota
Alsone wrote:
At my local lake a while ago, someone launched a Tornado, and no one else dared venture out! Even the lake owners were talking about banning it.


Wow, that is completely ridiculous. (on many counts)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:44 am 
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Karl Brogger wrote:
...

Wow, that is completely ridiculous. (on many counts)


UAH -- First , i'd ask :"exactly how Big is the lake" ?

I wouldn't set up a landing in a field with my Hang glider,
by flying over animals ; might "Scare" the sheep !!

Bille


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:40 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:47 am 
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Bille wrote:
Karl Brogger wrote:
...

Wow, that is completely ridiculous. (on many counts)


UAH -- First , i'd ask :"exactly how Big is the lake" ?

I wouldn't set up a landing in a field with my Hang glider,
by flying over animals ; might "Scare" the sheep !!

Bille


150m wide by about 700m long with a 70m by 30m island.

So about 160m x 1/2 mile.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:24 am 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... oBIv3TVbA#!


Last edited by Creative on Thu May 23, 2013 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:16 am 
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Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
I think a wing sail cat would be more of an instant hit than a foiling cat... A new 18 to 20 beach cat with a collapsible wing sail - that would be awesome! :-)


Have a Hobie Day!

Sent from Tapatalk

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:20 pm 
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ftlauderdale16 wrote:
I think a wing sail cat would be more of an instant hit than a foiling cat... A new 18 to 20 beach cat with a collapsible wing sail - that would be awesome! :-)


Have a Hobie Day!

Sent from Tapatalk


Trouble is wing sails are delicate, difficult to transport (as they have to be transported whole), expensive and easily wrecked.

That's why the International Moth has up to now used windsurfing sails with conventional sails with wing profiles that are camber induced.

I'm aware there are some moves to introduce wing sails to Moths, but if you've heard of it then you'll also know that many Moth sailors are reportedly against the move for the very reasons I mentioned above, which remembering that the Moth is a development class that's used to extreme introductions, says something.




At 10 minutes into that video you can see the result of a capsize on the wing.

If you watch the Americas cup, you'll also be aware of the spectacular failures of these sails when a boat capsizes, often caused by the sailors falling through the rigid wing during the capsize. You'll also be aware of the recent death of a sailor during AC72 practice after a capsize in which the wing came down. I'm not saying the wing was the cause as I haven't seen a report on the capsize but given that the sailor concerned was trapped, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't play a role:

http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2013/ ... izes-ac72/


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:30 pm 
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Creative wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5doBIv3TVbA#!


Some awesome speed there and it looked reasonably stable.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:17 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:20 pm 
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That Laser Foiling kit is $5800 right now. I have all the info on it if anyone wants more specs.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:54 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PggiwAYhoTA


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:43 pm 
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fusioneng wrote:
...
There is a problem with most foils that people don't talk about much, and thats the double drag from both the hull and the foil when the boat is not foiling. This is difficult to overcome, if you can come up with a simple retractable foil design, that doesn't increase drag when just out sailing having fun, then be able to just turn them on when the conditions are right, and you're already up to foil speed when you deploy them, then you might have something worthwhile.


I would be deploying them maybe twice per season in Florida.
...



Bob


Ever heard of Functional Fixedness ?
The first guy makes a solution for a problem ; everyone else behind him
can only think about solving the SAME problem the Same way as the first guy did .

Basically there "IS NO" reason the foils couldn't swing down from the extreme
edges of the beam.

And for the second part in your post : Ya should-a Made the Foils BIGGER for
those Light-wind days ; nobody to blame here, but Yourself, and it sounds like
your Still Pissed cause Ya blew all that time making a design that had a slight
flaw ?

I'd just start Over and improve on the work, instead of Giving-Up !!
But that's ME, and Here's Why i got that attitude :


http://www.thekiteboarder.com/wordpress ... lly-floyd/

Bille


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:54 am 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
Bille:

That's quite an inspirational story you posted.

Functional Fixedness: That probably explains why the automobile engine has not changed much in the last hundred years, and why every single airplane out there uses all exactly the same controls (ailerons, rudder, elevators, etc), and sailboats and sailing haven't changed much in the last 2000 yrs or so (until recently).

On the second part your exactly right I should-a made my foils bigger in order to be able to work in the typical conditions we have in this area, 5-7 mph winds 10 months out of the year, with the boat I have (Hobie Tandem Island).

I haven't given up though, I'm still working on my goal, and have been busy the last couple years since building those foils to come up with designs that do work (mostly wing sails, and exploiting the tri-power capability of my TI (sails, pedal power, and hybrid gas or solar electric) so I can generate enough power to propel my boat on the foils at 2.5 x wind speed in low winds (<10mph) regardless of wind direction. I'll get there eventually, it's just a lot of learning and development to get there.
Once completed I plan to compete in the Watertribe 300 mile EC challenge race in the experimental electric class IV (http://www.watertribe.org). Being in my 60's knowing I don't have the physical capabilities to complete this race conventionally. My plan is to use my brain power and cheat as much as possible to complete the race within my own physical capabilities.

Basically my boat is a perpetual motion device, by pedaling with the assistance of a small solar/electric or small hybrid gas motor this creates your forward motion. The forward motion creates apparent wind. The wing sails amplify that apparent wind and amplify the energy into forward power. It simply doesn't matter which direction the wind is coming from since the boat generates it's own apparent wind. Even in almost no wind at all it all works since your generating your own wind. I've had the boat working for a while now and am able to sail almost directly into the wind and propel the boat to 6-8 mph. Since I can't physically provide enough power just by pedaling alone, I need to add some supplemental power with the hybrid gas motor or solar electric, the small gas motor I'm currently using is only running at 1/4 throttle providing just enough power to make everything work ( I get around 100 miles per gallon), it costs me about a buck in gas to go out sailing for the day every weekend currently. By pedaling alone (no sails) the boat goes around 3mph. The motor itself (without pedaling or sails) propels the boat to around 3-3.5 mph). by utilizing the tri-power capabilities (sail, pedal, hybrid gas or solar/electric) all together I am able to propel the boat currently to 6-8 mph regardless of wind direction, and even in almost no wind at all. Currently only my jib is a wing sail (33 sq ft), the 100 sq ft wing main sail is designed but not completed yet (I'm saving up the $300 bucks to make it), I'm using the stock Hobie 90 sq ft mainsail with the wing jib feeding air over the main to force it to work. Once I get the wing main completed performance will increase even more.
This all works fine currently, once I complete and perfect the wing main my next step will be to introduce my hydrofoils to reduce the drag and wetted area. I am hoping that once on the foils with reduced drag the speed will keep increasing using the apparent wind generated by the wing sails, and am hoping the supplemental power generated by the motor and pedal power can be turned down (or off). My goal is 2.5 times wind speed in very low winds, of course if you have more natural wind then the system requires less supplemental power.

Yea it's a little outside the box, but hey I'm having fun. I'm out there pedaling between 20 and 50 miles per week trying to build up my legs and endurance, at the very least it's a good exercise program.

So I haven't given up
Bob


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