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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:04 pm 
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I have recently purchased an outback and want to start fishing in the surf. I live in the Northeast USA and the fall surf can average 4-5 ft swells.

Does anyone have any hints for landing the outback or any videos I can view ?

Would the Sidekick attachments help and has anyone ever used them ?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:58 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
Would be a very good idea to practice in surf without your gear. With gear, tie everything down before going through surf.

Side kicks would be problematic in surf. You need to be able to slide the boat sideways in the white water.

Best case, depending on the swells speed, is to ride the back of the last of a set. That can get you through the impact zone and possibly with aggressive paddling / pedaling you can make it to the beach clean. Once the white water of the next following wave catches you, you will be forced sideways. Very hard to keep the boat pointed towards the beach and not stuff the nose, so being sideways is preferred in my mind.

I say, strap the drive with fins up. Rudder up. Paddle in. The paddle will be used for balance. Once sliding sideways, you lean towards the wave with the paddle extended into the wave face... dragging the blade on the surface (flat) the boat slides sideways in front of the white water. Do not allow the boat to roll towards the beach. Worst case, you roll out towards the wave.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:15 am 
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I have tried many times with my Outback. The best advice I can give you would be to either go as fast as you can leaving the drives in (you will need to feel/know when to stop paddling), or hop out waist deep and walk in slow until you can dart in between sets. Either way, the Outback is extreamily difficult and will ROLL sideways! Leash EVERYTHING and use 2 peice rods if possible(break them down before launching)!

I have not had any luck paddling in because I just cant seem to generate enough speed. Could be the current or weak strokes :) I'd like to be able to practice with the paddle (so called surfing waves), but would require a surf kayak... any kayak other than mine....

Good luck! Video if possible as there isnt a lot of Outback launching.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:01 pm 
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Location: Sarasota,Key West FL
brigguy:
If you have an anchor for your kayak, it helps to throw the anchor out before you get into the worst part of the surf (about waist to chest high typically), then feed the anchor line out thru a pulley on the back of the boat. This helps keep you straight as your coming in. You can also use a sea anchor like this ( http://www.outdoorplay.com/Kayak-Drift- ... =shopzilla ) if you use the sea drogue you don't have to go out and get the grapple anchor if it gets stuck, and you don't have to hand feed the line out (just drag the drogue). Coming in on the kayaks we would typically put the rudder up, park the mirage drives and use the paddles and the anchor line to guide ourselves in (the rudder down actually makes it worse coming in and much more difficult, at least in our case, because the waves pushing on it push you in the opposite direction you want to go)

Going out is the opposite, you go out to waist deep water holding the boat by the bow. You then fling the anchor out as far as you can throw it, run the line thru a pulley or padeye in the bow this time. You then set your rudder and mirage drive jump in the boat between waves (you have to move quickly), then start pedaling like crazy, while pulling on the anchor line (the rudder will help you going out). It really helps keep the boat straight as your going out. Of course you still get soaked and anything not tied down will be lost, but at least you get out of the surf.
I use this method with my tandem island currently and it works well (with a much larger anchor). When we had our Oasis and Revolutions, we used the same method to come in and go out from beaches down here in Florida since we always had the grapple anchors on board anyway. But big breakers for us are 2-3 feet, you would have to try it in bigger breakers and surf. If you survive let us know if it worked ( LOL).
We need the Hawaii guys to chime in on this, they have the real knowhow on the subject. I'm just a Florida guy and we only have puny waves LOL.
Bob


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:45 pm 
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hmm, I'd like to hear more on this because I want to get a 2014 Outback next year, but I know if surf is an issue then the Revo13 might be a better purchase instead. My Revo 11 is almost as good as its bigger brother, but it seems the Revo13 surfs in better.

Sorry didn't mean to derail your thread, carry on!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:16 pm 
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Location: Amelia Island, FL
I have found that the best way is to come in backwards. Paddle backwards toward the beach. Each time a set of waves comes at you, simply paddle hard forward into the waves. Trying to ride the waves in forward has turned into a disaster for me each time. The wave lifts the back of your kayak and will bury the bow of your kayak into the water. At that point you usually are saying "this can't be good".


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Location: Jaco, Costa Rica
Coming from a Costa Rica Pacific surf beach (normal 4 to 6 ft., I've done 8 to 10 ft) with a Revolution 13 (I've heard arguments both ways about which is easier to land Revo 13 or Outback, don't know which but I think I would give the Revo the nod for speed. Regardless there are many other factors that will determine surf success so basically your in the same kayak. :lol: )

First, always expect the worst and be prepared. Everything leashed and stowed, PDF securely on. Thus the worse that can happen is you wipe out and laugh about it.
I always secure my rudder when going thru the surf, use the paddle as your rudder and brace. I always use on sandy beach my mirage pedals to move as quickly as possible thru the danger zone. The launch is always much easier than the landing. Another important point. Normally every inlet bay beach has a weaker indirect break (protected from the swell) on either end. If possible, use this launch location, often the break zone here is shorter and less powerful. Another thing is tides, I never try to launch or land near high tide or low. The forces are the greatest at high with a much larger danger zone and on low tide the surf is pounding directly into the sand, harder to find a start point. Do all your launching and landing during the mid tides either way with a fairly large window. Also you have some beach to work with then.
On the launch I always get my kayak out in waist deep water, bow pointed towards the surf holding the front handle, lift for white water. (Never get caught with the kayak between you and the surf. Those breakers can seriously hurt you pushing the kayak against you, lot's of force there.) When there is an opening I install the mirage pedals. Watch the breaking waves look for a pattern. Try to prepare to jump in the kayak and start just before the last big breaker in a set. Use the paddle as your rudder, keep the bow straight into the breakers, get up a little speed into any oncoming wave. If clear near the danger zone, hit it as fast as you can pedal keeping straight into the breakers. Don't hesitate, even if you time it wrong into a big surge breaking, it's too late and your committed in the danger zone, chances are with enough speed you'll make it. If you don't, and slow down, your surely toast and will have to start all over again (If you wipeout, just let your kayak go, it will float back just fine, hang onto your paddle if you can, during tides that push you back out into the break, the paddle is nice to use to lay out in front of you and grasp hard to let the breaking wave push you in.) Once well past the break zone you can relax, take a moment, or pump your fist in the air. :lol:

The exit/landing. See next post.

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Adventure Island- 2014
Revolution 13- 2013


Last edited by CR Yaker on Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:59 pm, edited 10 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:35 pm 
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Location: Jaco, Costa Rica
The landing: This is the harder of the two because on the Outback and Revolution 13 the power of the broken rushing waves want to turn you sideways, the waves power overtaking your power.

Okay, I'm out past the break and I've secured everything to/in the kayak. I've also lifted and secured the rudder. My paddle is out for the rudder as I peddle to the outside of the surf zone looking back onto the water to see the oncoming surges, take your time here, once I've committed to the danger zone there is no turning back, so now is the time to watch the incoming surge and try to time the set to catch that last big wave and try to ride onto it as far as possible, once I fall off the back side, I'm a sitting duck, keep hitting it as hard as possible on those pedals.
Perfect Scenario: Hopefully you can make it back into waist high water before the next broken wave reaches you. If you do make it in far enough, jam your pedals forward and immediately jump out of the kayak and swing your bow around into the oncoming surf holding the front handle. You are now back at starting point to launch. (With an opening remember to pull your pedals), Walking backwards slowly walk your kayak backwards to the shoreline, when the coast is clear swing your bow around 180 and pull the kayak up onto the sand. Pump fist in the air. :lol:

Not so perfect Scenario: You've committed to land but you just can't make enough headway in to reach shallow enough water before the next big broken wave is upon you. Plan B, you have two choices, Do as Mr. Miller suggested, jam your pedals forward and use your paddle to brace into the oncoming wave, or, keep pedaling and turn your kayak into the oncoming wave, if early enough, and push forward into the wave as if you we're launching. As soon as you clear over the wave turn back into shore and hit it as hard as you can, hopefully this time you make it to waist high water

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Mark
Adventure Island- 2014
Revolution 13- 2013


Last edited by CR Yaker on Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:16 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:50 pm 
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Location: Jaco, Costa Rica
Going backwards for landing. All I can say is that I'm not a big fan of this method. The last thing I want to do is linger in the danger zone with those large breakers any longer than I have to. It all depends on the beach, depth, water, whether this method can work. But my view is this, if there is a situation where going backwards can work, then someone in the know and experienced going forward can easily succeed going in forwards.
But, a situation where going backwards is far too slow, wham you get hit by a big breaker that rolls you, now what, your way out in the worst part of the danger zone, hopefully you have the moxy to take a few breakers to get back into shore. To me there's far too many risks with this method, especially with newbies or new locations. Better to eat it in closer than to eat it out further and unexpectantly. I'd rather roll while trying to brace into the white water, than eat a full on breaker. :roll:
As far as using an anchor or drogue, your probably not going to carry one on an Outback or Revo going into the ocean. Unnecessary weight/bulk. Secondly, at least at the rough beaches I've launched from, you'll never get close enough to toss the anchor/drogue from waist deep water thru the break zone, in fact I can't even cast that far with my rod and reel, definitely can't swim thru those breakers with an anchor. :lol:
More than likely it's the same situation as the backwards method, mild short break, thus easy for experienced forward method kayakers to navigate.
On a side note: If you don't feel comfortable with the surf strength, don't do it, there's always another day. If your crazy like me, go ahead and charge that big 10ft breaker straight on full speed, sometimes you make it, sometimes you end up on your back. :lol:
Night time landing is another animal. Hate those jellyfish. :o

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Mark
Adventure Island- 2014
Revolution 13- 2013


Last edited by CR Yaker on Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:17 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:47 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
...and timing is key!

Watch the waves for several minutes minimum. They come it "sets". Count the duration between larger sets (10 - 11 waves in a cycle approx). On the way out, get going in shallow water during the larger set, so when you decide to punch it... you are more likely in a lull. If you wait for the lull to launch, you end up in the larger wave cycle in the impact zone.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:54 pm 
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Great advice, great forum.

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:37 am 
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Location: Auckland NZ
Research a (Jordan) series drogue on the web carefully so that you really understand why they work, how they work and how to make and use one. Then make yourself a small one - it won't cost you the earth (mine only has 9 cones on it), work out a way of tying it to your kayak (I tie mine through the scupper holes in the storage deck with a length of webbing strapping), and practise deploying it before you try it in the surf.

They are devices to stop a breaking wave kayak at sea i.e. to stop a breaking wave picking up a boat, throwing it forwards, slewing it sideways and rolling it. The technique, which was designed for ocean sailing, when scaled down works brilliantly on kayaks in the surf and in waves the size you are talking about it is the only technique I have found works to avoid regular dumpings.

Basically you chuck it out the back of your boat on a bridle so as to avoid interefing with the rudder and pedal in directly into the beach, i.e. perpendicular to the passing waves, against the drag of the drogue. Waves pick you up, push you forwards and then, because the drogue bites as this happens, they pass more or less harmlessly under or over you. If a wave breaks around your ears, because you are moving forwards as it does so, there is none of the smacking that you get when traveling out or putting your shoulder into a wave when standing stationary in the water.

To be honest I made mine several years ago after experiencing some pretty big waves due to abnormal weather patterns. I haven't used it much since, but it was pretty amazing in use: I could more or less sit still in the kayak in waves that surfers were riding in on all around me and pedalling in to shore in these conditions was easy - all you have to do is get into waist to knee deep water, step out of the boat, pick it up by the rear carrying handle with one hand and pull the drogue in with the other. I believe that anyone who regularly has to return to shore through these kinds of waves without getting dumped could benefit.


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