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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:51 am
Posts: 8
Location: Hong Kong
Hi out there!

I just moved into Hong Kong and live at the seaside close to the home of the Hong Kong Hobie fleet. I want to do some watersports and so it is clear that I want to join the club, have a boat and go sailing at least every 2nd weekend. I want to sail with my wife but I would also like to take up to 2 friends with us on the boat from time to time. Now we are shopping for a boat.

1st issue: We have no sailing experience
I did the windsurfing 10 yrs ago and my wife sailed a small "inflated rubber" catamaran 15 yrs ago. Thats all. This means we have no sailing experience but some feeling for the wind. We have registered for a sailing course (0,5 day theorie and 5 days of sailing on a monohull because they do not offer couses on catamarans).

2nd issue: I'm heavy! - I'm 6 ft 5,5 inch tall and my weight is 230lb.
- My wifes weight is 125 lb
- Total crew weight would be 355 lb (unless I succeede in reducing my weight, which is rather unlikely )

The local hobie club has a guy that sells new and second hand hobies. He said that a H16 is too small for the two of us - and now he wants to sell us his Hobie Tiger (2003 model) because it would be the right boat for our weight and easy to sail. He also said the H17 and H18 are outdated design and will no longer produced (don't believe that).

I have my doubts. Beside the fact that the price of the Tiger is three times of the Hobie 16 (which is not really the issue, becasue in HK I have no hobbies so far) I have the following concerns:
- Are we too heavy for the H16? (After getting better I'd love to race!)
- Is the Tiger a boat for beginners or will we crash the thing on the first ride? (The local club will help us to learn)
- Is the 5 days sailing course sufficient to get the basics of sailing in order to operate a Tiger safely?

I would appreciate your comments!

Regards

Ralf from Hong Kong


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:53 am
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Location: Guaynabo, Puerto Rico
Im in a similar situation to yours hehehe. I sailed Lasers for about 3 years, but left em about 2 years ago when I started college. Now I want to get back into sailing and started thinking about Hobies, so I could sail with a partner......and because those boats go hella fast hehehe.


I saw a Tiger picture and fell inlove with the boat....Im about the same size of the poster above so ill benefit alot from the input here. Will the Tiger be a better choice than a H16? I am really interested in Racing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 3:16 pm
Posts: 301
Location: San Diego
Galeo,

I'd try to get in touch with Enrique Figueroa from Beach Cats in Santurce, Puerto Rico, he's probably a great person to ask what's happening in the beach cat scene in PR. I know that the H16 has a VERY strong racing fleet there and that there is some interest to build a Tiger fleet there as well.

Greg Thomas

_________________
Greg Thomas
Hobie Factory Team


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:14 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:53 am
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Location: Guaynabo, Puerto Rico
Awesome, ill go there one of these days and talk to him, thanx for the advice!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:00 am
Posts: 383
Location: Long Beach, CA
I come to the Tiger fleet by way of the Hobie 16 (17 years) then the Hobie 20 (5 years) now the Tiger (4 months):

Weight considerations - the Hobie 16 in racing situations is pretty critical to keep kind of close to minimum (285lbs). It is a fine boat to learn sailing on and will take a fair amount of abuse. Run it up on the beach in a blow just for the fun of it. Do not do this to your racing boat! You can sail this boat in a breeze with a fair amount of weight on it. If there is noone else to pace yourself against it is a fun boat to sail as you will not even know you are going 1 KM slower than the next guy. You can learn alot from this boat, patience in tacking, how to trapeze, beach launching, hull flying and downwind skills. What you may not learn alot about is boat maintainence. It is built very strong. It was designed to surf. I think that if you are looking for a boat to have for about 6 months or so to learn how to sail and decide later what you are going to get this would be a good choice. If you want to jump into racing you will be frustrated. It is a fairly easy boat to sail it is a hard boat to sail really well. By that I mean that it has some quirks that are unique to this boat, you will learn them.

The Tiger is a great boat and very bouyant. You will be able to be on this boat without that sinking feeling. It was designed to hold 330 lbs. That is how they sail them in Europe. If you want an easy boat to sail and can be consciensious about the daggerboards you will have a fun time. Take the spinnaker off for the time that you are learning to feel comfortable with a catamaran. Then gradually get used to it in moderate not heavy conditions. Without the spinnaker it will actually be an easier boat than the 16 to learn to sail. It turns easily has a self tacking jib. Remember that this is not a surfing boat it is a racing boat. Do not ever run this recklessly up the beach. Get a set of beachwheels to move it around. This goes from beachcat (Hobie 16) to yacht. It will be a bit more expensive to buy and maintain.

I like sailing 16's, I love sailing the Tiger. When you start putting the spinnaker up and flying the hull downwind you will know what I mean.

Later,
Dan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:58 pm
Posts: 102
Location: Ottawa, Canada
[quote="Dan DeLave"]
It will be a bit more expensive to buy and maintain.
[quote]

Dan when you say more expensive to maintain, what are you referring to? Do you mean you have to be more gentle with the hull meaning beachdollies are a necessity? Or is there other considerations?

Thanks for the excellent explaination BTW.

Cheers
Alan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Hi

General maintenance is higher on the tiger than a 16 (or 18). We regularly blow out blocks (mostly concerned with the spi), just replaced the trap ropes, the spi will last about a season at best before it starts going down hill (I have a good regatta spi and a crappy one for general training etc). The jib will last quite well with the self tacker as will the main (as long as you don't fall thru it). Every now and again you we come back with a broken batten which I suspet is caused by super quick gybes.

The platform and rig itself is quite strong and IMHO the extra expence is mainly because the boat was designed from day 1 for racing rather than the H16 which was designed to surf the waves of Calafornia, bouncing off the odd sand bank.

Michael


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:51 am
Posts: 8
Location: Hong Kong
Dan and Mike,

thank you for your replies! These were really a great help.

Actually I crossposted the same question in the "Open Forum - Sailing". The replies there were rather negative on the Tiger (including yours, Mike). Dan was the only positive recommendation on the Tiger for a beginner.

So, after bothering you with my issue, what is now the decision?

I've counterweighed all the pro's and con's and bought the Tiger yesterday.

What are the reasons? I sailed the 16 and must say, it is a nice and easy to handle boat, but I had really that sinking feeling already with only two persons on the boat. Three persons is almost over the edge, with four we all would get really wet. Again: I want to take out some friends.

Same day I was crewing with my wife in a race on the Tiger. WOW!!! We were hull flying for over a mile with the spin - again WOW!!! OK, the helmsman is an experienced racing skipper, but that was a completly different story. We definetly have to race, too!!! Although we were 3 persons on the boat, we were second 2 after another Tiger and well ahead the crowds of the 16's.

I also had the chance to helm on our way back and was really surprised: First, the boat is much more buyant and can really handle our weight. Second, when you do not use the spinaker, I felt it easier to sail compared to the 16. The selftacking jib makes tacks really easy.

Furthermore I had the feeling, the boat is much more stable. The 16 responds on every body movement like a surfboard (again, 100kg) but the Tiger remained pretty unimpressed.

So, we will put the spin aside for the first time and just start sailing without it. We can grow with the boat and will never reach its limits. Despite the daggerboards and the more complex rigging I felt there is not really much difference to the 16.

Remains the money:

There were no resonable second hand 16 or 18 available, so my alternative would have been to buy a new 16. Compared to that I think I've made a good bargain. The boat is one year old (2003) and in a very good condition. (I checked it with some other members of the club). I paid a premium of USD 3700 for the 1yr old Tiger (incl. boat cover and beach wheels) compared to the price of a barnd new 16. I thought it is worth it.

Now you can argue, but I have learned in other sports (e.g. snowboarding), that I have to pay a premium for my weight. This meeans I have usually to buy more expensive equipment that can match with my weight but is overkill for my current skills.

The real advantage is the club. Without the Hobie club right out of my front door I would not have taken the risk to buy a boat at all. There are some club members willing to crew with us on the Tiger and help us to get into sailing very quickly. Obviously they have a very selfish approach: They want to get us to racing very soon - beause they have more competition. Hopefully this works out (without too much damage to the boat - I'm aware of the maintenace cost!).

So, I will keep you in the loop how we proceede and what is the final answer to my question.

With best regards

Ralf


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 Post subject: maintainence and choices
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:00 am
Posts: 383
Location: Long Beach, CA
:roll: Alan:

What I mean by more expensive to maintain is easy to explain. There is a lot more on the Tiger than there is on a 16. Look at just the lines and the sail numbers. A Hobie 16 has a main sheet and a jib sheet, and maybe a system to run the jib traveler. On top of those the Tiger has a Spinnaker sheet, spin halyard, maybe a spinnaker tack line, downhaul (probably cascading), outhaul, mast rotation system. That is before anybody adds any thing else. There are 50% more sails on the Tiger and one of them is very delicate, the spinnaker. Also, I have seen several people fall into and through the Tiger main. Not many people I know have fallen into a 16 main and ripped it. The hulls on a Tiger are not made to slide up the beach without wheels. The boom is smaller. Spinnaker pole cannot take much weight, like hanging onto if you fall off the boat. Along with all of this is a certain amount of experimentation on rigging ideas that you will try, just because you can. All of this is money. All of this said, if you want speed and butt puckering fun, in more sailing conditions, go with the Tiger.

:wink: Ralf:

If you had said that there was only a $3700 premium on the Tiger over the 16 there would have been no doubt in my mind which to choose. I think you made a great choice! You have already had and will have great times on the boat. Also, the concept that there will be a lot of “friends” to help you learn how to sail the boat…well that is a big bonus. You mentioned that they want you for the competition. They may want you to show them that the Tiger is the way for them to turn as well. By sailing on your boat they may get excited to get themselves one. This is good all around. Sounds as though you have a perfect place to sail it. Have Fun!!!

Later,
Dan


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 Post subject: TKS
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:58 pm
Posts: 102
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Thanks Dan!

I already went with the Tiger :) a few weeks ago, however I was interested in hearing your take. It doesn't arrive for another few weeks or so.

I have not actually seen a Tiger up close, however, I have a "need for speed" :lol: and rather than buy a slower boat :cry: and regret it, I decided to buy one that will be too much for me in the beginning, but will require me to pay attention and grow.

Cheers
Alan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Good luck with your tigers guys, they are a hell of a boat to learn how to sail on. Use your friends experience for all it is worth. At my club a group of us bought them, each of us with many years sailing experience and being the only tigers within 500 miles we didn't have anybody to show us and the learning curve was very steep.

Michael


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:58 pm
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
Mike

I can see where you got the impression from, but actually I am not a new sailor. I have had a H14 for a few years and I used to race windsurfers for years.

I have no doubt that the Tiger will be a handful. :)

I always bite off more than I can chew. :lol:

Cheers Alan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 6:33 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:51 am
Posts: 8
Location: Hong Kong
@ Mike:

Yes, you are right it is a hell of a boat to learn. :twisted: I compare it to to learn driving on a Ferrari. Because of this the decision was not easy.

But again: The Hobie club has 5 Tigers owned by experienced skippers and a number of others racing the 16. :D Without that experience I would never even have thought to buy the Tiger! My key message to other necomers in this board: If you are on your own: Forget about the Tiger.

Really attempting was the good bargain: The guy selling me the boat imports Hobies directly. Some of the boats he uses for a kind of promotion, sails them himself in races and then changes again to another boat. He now will change to the FX One because this would be the first in town and he can race without crew. This was basically thereason for the good price. He sails like hell and is very helpful to share his knowledge and experience to the other club members. If somebody has a problem with his boat - he is the guy to fix it or the guy who knows who can fix it at reasonable price.

My key message here is: Even if it was a good bargain, but you have to look at the maintenance cost. I think I'm able to afford even major repairs and I have really good suppliers on hand. We have really good sailmakers in town. Otherwise it would have been a no-go.

So, you can see: I still convince myself that it was the right decision to buy the Tiger, but the uncertainty and the risk remains: If you learn driving on the Ferrari, you have to be really careful. :wink:

Ralf


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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2004 7:22 pm 
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My wife and I were just discussing the Hobie 16' Getaway versus the Tiger. Your posts cleared it up for me. Tomorrow, we will buy the Tiger tomorrow at about a extra $2800 USD for the 2000 Tiger with extra sails etc vs. the 2002 Getaway with no extras. Our 7 year plan is to be blue water cruising to Australia. The Tiger just seems like so much more boat for the money and a lot more learning potential. Thanks


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 Post subject: Congratulations GregV.
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 10:32 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:34 pm
Posts: 2
Location: NY
Greg V.

Welcome to the New York Tiger fleet.

FYI.. Here are a few web sites that may be of interest.

Tiger setup info...
http://www.hobie-cat.net/site_gb/index.php?produits,hobie_tiger
http://www.geocities.com/hobietigerpages/news.htm


Take a look at the Hobie University booklet… good learning material.
http://www.hobieclass.com/hobieu/HobieU.pdf
See ya !
Bob O
Tiger999@rochester.rr.com


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