Return to Hobie.com
Hobie Forums
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:04 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:42 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 15026
Location: Oceanside, California
This has been in place since about March of 2011. There was no bulletin on a running change / improvement.

80390346 SCREW W/NUT ISLAND GUDGEON

This is the 1/4-20 thread PH17-4 stainless stud with a seized-nut for a head.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:43 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 2763
Location: High Point, NC
I pulled the gudgeon off my TI just a bit ago because after looking inside I could see where there were protrusions for 3 molded in nuts. Somehow I didn't recall that third one being there when I originally reshaped the gudgeon. Sure enough, the hull does indeed contain 3 molded in nuts, while the gudgeon is only fitted for two.

Image

I've not had any problems, whatsoever, even though I replaced the Hobie studs/nuts with standard 1/4-20 SS screws. I think this is because by reshaping the gudgeon to match the hull stern shape, a great deal of pressure and resulting fatigue has been taken off the screws.

Image

Since I do have the capability for a 3rd screw, I'll likely order the newer gudgeon and have what I think will be an almost bullet proof set up. However, I'll still reshape the new gudgeon to match the stern just as I did the original one. I really believe that's the key to getting the most strength and durability out of the assembly. If you're putting out to sea or any heavy water, I'd darn sure make this modification.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:45 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2863
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
mmiller wrote:
This has been in place since about March of 2011. There was no bulletin on a running change / improvement.

80390346 SCREW W/NUT ISLAND GUDGEON

This is the 1/4-20 thread PH17-4 stainless stud with a seized-nut for a head.


Thanks for that Matt.
Since 3/11?? I'm a bit surprised that this wasn't made known earlier as there have been a number of failures reported on this forum.

Tom Kirkman wrote:
I've not had any problems, whatsoever, even though I replaced the Hobie studs/nuts with standard 1/4-20 SS screws. I think this is because by reshaping the gudgeon to match the hull stern shape, a great deal of pressure and resulting fatigue has been taken off the screws.
... However, I'll still reshape the new gudgeon to match the stern just as I did the original one. I really believe that's the key to getting the most strength and durability out of the assembly. If you're putting out to sea or any heavy water, I'd darn sure make this modification.


You have a good point there Tom and I hope Hobie are listening.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:53 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 15026
Location: Oceanside, California
stringy wrote:
mmiller wrote:
This has been in place since about March of 2011. There was no bulletin on a running change / improvement.

80390346 SCREW W/NUT ISLAND GUDGEON

This is the 1/4-20 thread PH17-4 stainless stud with a seized-nut for a head.


Thanks for that Matt.
Since 3/11?? I'm a bit surprised that this wasn't made known earlier as there have been a number of failures reported on this forum.



This was my first reference to the PH17-4 screws that I could find... back in October 2011...

mmiller wrote:
Quote:
More details please.
Upgraded part #'s? Available down under yet?


Not yet available. This is really new information. As a precaution, we are trying to source new screws made from the same material as the V brace screw (17-4 I believe). These are not off-the-shelf parts. They would be custom. Currently we are making custom bolts with a V brace screw and a nut jammed on as a head.

Just be sure your screws are tight. I think a loose screw may be the cause of failures. Especially after watching this users video.


Seems the factory engineers requested it in March, so may have taken a little while and then replacement parts were not defined by October of 2011.

Also... Correct number is 8030346 SCREW W/NUT ISLAND GUDGEON
STUD 1/4-20 x 1" PH17-4 W/ NUT SEIZED
... fat fingers.

Looks like we got the parts into the parts department in December 2011.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:48 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2863
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Thanks again for those details Matt. I'd forgotten all about this issue (and that I'd asked the same questions back in '11!)
I have regularly checked the tightness of the bolts and have never had a problem but I have ordered the stronger bolts.
I think Tom makes a very good point in that an ill fitting gudgeon could also be a contributing factor in these failures.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:57 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:57 pm
Posts: 234
Location: Delaware
Here is a picture snjsanders posted on Sep 13, 2012 - my gudgeon looks exactly like this:

Image

I would like to do some sanding for a better fit and replace the studs but I'd like to clarify a couple things, first ... "8030346 SCREW W/NUT ISLAND GUDGEON STUD 1/4-20 x 1" PH17-4 W/ NUT SEIZED" ... The upper and lower studs are the same so I need two of this part number to replace them? This part is stronger than the studs that came on the boat (2011 TI)?

Secondly, I found this in an old post:
bosab wrote:
If you ask nice at Hobie they will give you or sell you a new guedoen that is much better made for the TI and new rudder system. it fits better and compensates for the bit of bulge at the mounting points. it is not the compromise design they had for the old twist and stow rudder.


Is this correct? Should I also order a new gudgeon? I think I remember my dealer saying that he upgraded the rudder from the T&S.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:31 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 15026
Location: Oceanside, California
Your transom appears to only have the earlier 2 hole insert.

You can/should replace the lower screw with the stronger seized nut PH17-4 part #8030346 for best strength.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:26 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 15026
Location: Oceanside, California
I compiled a history as best as possible. This shows possible configurations starting from early boats to current.

- Original Twist and Stow rudders. 2 hole gudgeon with 2x 8030214 SCREW 1/4-20 x 1" BTN HD (may have had phillips heads now has allen)

- Retrofitted rudders - same fasteners

- Changed insert to add 3rd leg (visible 3rd hole) to add strength to transom. More plastic and 3rd leg creates more resistance to pulling out or pushing in.

- Updated lower screw to PH17-4 higher strength stainless. Production fasteners are not available in PH17-4, so we constructed of a stud and seized hex nut for a head (slotted end on stud) Upper 8030214 SCREW 1/4-20 x 1" BTN HD / Lower 8030346 SCREW W/NUT ISLAND GUDGEON STUD 1/4-20 x 1" PH17-4 W/ NUT SEIZED

- Decision was made to replace the PH17-4 assembled part and go to a larger diameter (and commercially available) 5/16-24 screw and use both upper holes with 1/4-20s. Late March 2012 started 3 hole gudgeons with 1x 8030355 SCREW 5/16-24 x 3/4 BTN HD SCK Lower and 2x 8030214 SCREW 1/4-20 x 1" BTN HD Uppers.

- AI hulls started coming with the same 3 hole gudgeon and fasteners earlier this month.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:03 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:58 am
Posts: 2893
Location: Forster, NSW, Australia
Matt, forgive my slowness of uptake, but I am confused.

I bought my 2012 model T! in June 2012. Am I correct in understanding that Hobie at some time has changed the sockets molded into the transom from two 1/4-20 threaded holes, to " Late March 2012 started 3 hole gudgeons with 1x SCREW 5/16-24 x 3/4 BTN HD SCK Lower and 2x 8030214 SCREW 1/4-20 x 1" BTN HD Uppers."

So what fixings would I need along with the new gudgeon #88991094 which I assume now comes with three holes?

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:22 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 2763
Location: High Point, NC
All three threaded inserts on mine require a 1/4-20 screw. If the bottom bore in the new gudgeon is larger I'll just sleeve it to accommodate the same 1/4-20.

I recognize that such running changes can sometimes be a bit fuzzy until all the various parts and pieces get sorted and standardized.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:01 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 15026
Location: Oceanside, California
If you have the larger lower screw… no changes needed.

If you have 3 available holes in transom and a two hole gudgeon… you can add another 8030214 SCREW 1/4-20 x 1" BTN HD (requires purchase of three hole gudgeon)

If you have a pan head ¼-20 lower… you can change to the 8030346 SCREW W/NUT ISLAND GUDGEON STUD 1/4-20 x 1" PH17-4 W/ NUT SEIZED

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:59 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 3068
Location: Kailua 96734
AI owners are not effected? They either have the complete 3 hole components or are not able to use them on their 2 holed hulls, correct?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:22 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 15026
Location: Oceanside, California
The same screw information should fit AI issues as well. The AI was not considered to be at risk of screw failure like the TI due to smaller sails / loads, but the bottom PH 17-4 stud and using all three holes if available would be good for AI as well.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:22 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm
Posts: 2763
Location: High Point, NC
Part #88991094 only has two screw holes. Just got one in from Austin Kayak expecting it to be the three hole model. It's not.

Anybody got the part number for the 3 hole gudgeon? Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:26 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 15026
Location: Oceanside, California
Sorry for that. The gudgeon was a rolling change... same number. Specify 3 hole. I have reviewed our stock here to be sure all are 3 hole from now on. did that before, but...

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
© Hobie Cat Company. All rights reserved.
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group