Looking for help in buying my "right kayak"

Hello everyone,

First post on here but have used other forums for cars before so hopefully am aware of posting courtesy.

Currently reside in Marietta, GA which is a suburb in Cobb County NE Atlanta and future home of the Atlanta Braves in 2017. Am a total newbie to kayaking as my only experience was two years ago on Lake Union in Seattle with two friends in a triple seat complete with splash skirt. My first experience is unfortunately chronicled on a friends YouTube account which you can find by Googling “Old farts in a kayak” if you are curious. However, never pursued it again in GA so never went again.

Flash forward to last month of this year and lo and behold my wife tries kayaking with her girlfriend on local Lake Arrowhead and loves it. Then goes down the “Hootch” (Chattahoochee river) and really loves it. So we are now in the market for a kayak that we can take to the many surrounding lakes (rivers?) and an occasional trip to the Gulf by Panama City, FL.

In order to capitalize on her new found interest I began researching in earnest and could not believe the enthusiastic reviews of the Hobie Mirages. So much so we have eliminated all other kayaks. Upon delving further into Hobie I knew we just had to have a Tandem Island as I imagined it was basically a “fun” factory on water. Not only was it a kayak but also a great sail boat with lots of room to move around. I imagined picnicking on the tramps in a quiet lake cove and later floating on some noodles nearby. On closer inspection, I realized it was maybe more suited for the ocean or gulf than a lake with mild winds in Georgia. Plus the need for a trailer and the sheer weight of lugging it into and out of the water slightly diminished my enthusiasm.

Undeterred, we headed off for the local Hobie Kayak dealer and find a Revo 11 sitting on the kayak room floor with a sail. Could this be an alternative? Instead of struggling with a behemoth we could just flip two of these on our RX350 and away we go. Hmmm. So then I really intensified my search and found the Mirage Tandem Oasis. A little shorter, maybe able to car top and supposedly one of the faster models when two are pedaling. The sail might be a joke but maybe carry it just in case a wind comes up. What to do now?

After pouring over several thousand Hobie Forum posts (maybe just hundred as I think about it) I was able to get a “feel” for what it is like to be an owner. Quite frankly I was amazed at some of the often polite and sometimes not so polite stories from people regarding warranty issues. It surprised me that so many people appeared to have problems with cracks around the Mirage Drive system even to the point of breaking a pedal completely off. The other thing I noticed was that used AI’s and TI’s sell pretty quickly on the Hobie Forum classifieds so if I made a mistake I could sell it quick enough. The final thing I got was the sense of adventure and enjoyment everyone seemed to get from their boats err kayaks.

My dilemma now it to find the Kayak that suits our needs and the one that provides us with the most fun and excitement. After talking with several dealers both in Georgia and Florida I realized that my first step should be to demo as many kayaks as I could in order to make an educated purchase. It is easier said than done in landlocked Atlanta, especially for an AI or TI. Consequently, we will be traveling to Dana Point, CA later this month to demo the Islands and possibly to Panama City to try an Oasis in the Gulf. Tomorrow we are off to demo an Oasis and possibly a Revo 11 on a lake.

Finally that brings me to some of my concerns and a request for any input anyone may have in helping in my decision. I realize that there may be no “perfect kayak” but I just want to find the right one for us.

Maybe my solution is an Oasis for home and rent an Island when in Florida?

However, Lake Jocassee in South Carolina is a short 130+ miles away and is supposed to have some great wind as well as waterfalls to explore but has no Ai/TI rentals that I could find.

A FL dealer told me to stay away from a tandem and get two Revo’s as it would help the marriage greatly and be easier to transport, load and unload. He said that would also translate into more fun using them more.

A GA dealer advised of the light winds on local lakes that could reduce the “fun” factor of an Island. I guess pedaling with a limp sail is not that much fun?

I’m not sure about pulling a trailer with a long kayak any distance on 8” tires. Exploding tires and the resulting mayhem is a concern. Also parking in restaurant and motel parking lots and possible theft.

Leaning toward a Thule 897XT Hullavator Lift Assist Kayak Carrier for carrying either two Revo 11’s or maybe an 11 and 13 or the Oasis. Thule SlipStream Kayak Carrier 887XT is a close second for just the Oasis.

Trailex Single Boat Light-Duty Trailer - SUT-350-S or Hobie Kayak Trailer - Single Tandem Island both with a Hobie Cradle Set for an Island.

As you can see I am all over the place with picking a boat err kayak and transport.

As a side note I am retired, 66, 5’ 11” 210lbs and am quite active as I split my own logs for the fireplace with my 25 ton splitter and manage to get out and walk 25 miles a week. So far, lifting 100 lbs for a few seconds seems like not that big a deal for me. However, I fully understand what is involved with car topping a AI/TI and consider a trailer the only solution. Would love going 20 minutes to the local lake Allatoona twice during the week days and enjoying ourselves

Appreciate everyone who takes the time to read my post. Hopefully I placed it in the right forum.

Looking forward to any quips, comments and help in finding my “right kayak”.

Mark the Shark

PS: Mark the Shark comes from a nickname I got in college. It referred to a rather large nose I had at the time that when sleeping on my back supposedly resembled a shark fin. Nonetheless, after putting on some weight, I have grown into it so it no longer applies … I don’t think.

Was able to demo a 2010 Oasis and a 2013 Revo 13 today on a lake.

First impression was both kayaks were heavier than I thought they would be. Made a believer out of me that a AI or TI would definitely need a trailer for me to launch either one. It was not a problem raising the Oasis to waist level but then raising it above my head to put on a car rack took more effort than I expected. Lesson learned.

The 2010 had the older Mirage Drive and were very hard to get locked into the slots and took quite a bit of trying until they somehow magically fell into place. I understand from the Revo 13 they were redesigned and on it the drive just fell in. At 13 feet the Revo was not a cakewalk either loading or unloading without a dolly but it WAS easier than the Oasis.

Got into the Oasis first and had the pedals on 5 which resulted in some close to the chest knee action that was not comfortable on the knees but after moving to 6 seemed a lot more natural. Started out taking long pedal pushes which resulted in what I thought was the pedals banging against the bulkhead behind them. My wife's friend also experienced the same sensation even with her pedals set on 4. However, after adjusting to shorter pushes the banging went away. After a period of trying different length pushes I found myself settling in and feeling more relaxed. I did mange to dump us both into the lake when I brought the Oasis into the ramp. I did not want to scrape the bottom on the cement so I tried to extend my right leg out to touch bottom and stop our forward motion but ended up getting us both wet. The Oasis did, however, feel more stable then the Revo 13.

Transferred to the Revo 13 and noticed a marked improvement in the pedal action which may be because of the newer drive improvements or my imagination. Immediately got in a race with both girls in the Oasis and was just able to edge them out before I had to stop. As they seemed to not be pushing as hard as me they kept going. So it appears that the tandem kayak seems to be less taxing and in my opinion the better ride for a twosome. After racing across a small portion of the lake we turned and I, while following behind them, was able to achieve a much tighter turn in the Revo 13.

When we arrived at the Hobie dealer they had a red Tandem Island right out front so we are planning that as a future rental. Will be comparing it on a lake to our upcoming demo in the ocean at Dana Point.

Conclusion: Imagination or not we will be going with a newer kayak with the newer Mirage Drive if only for ease of Mirage Drive insertion. Also after pedaling the Revo 13 by herself my wife found the Oasis easier to pedal with someone else and therefore has opted for a Tandem instead of two singles. Just the idea of not having to pedal all the time won her over. Also the stability of the wider kayak was considerably better even with my dunking.

So if I had to buy a Hobie Kayak today it would be a 2014 Oasis.

Mark,

I do not believe you will be disappointed with an Oasis. I have had sevaral Hobies (outback, adventure, AI, outfitter) and currently have adventure/AI and Oasis.

The Oasis is my newest boat and I don't have a huge number of miles in her but she is fast, stable, much drier than the adventure, solo-able (best from the front cockpit in my experience though can be done fro the rear if you add ballast to weigh down the bow), stable-enough that you can move from one cockpit to the other when solo etc etc.

She'll sail OK two up with a single sail but I am in thhe process of adding a second mast base in thhe front cockpit so that she can be sailed as a schooner - I tried my friend's boat with this mod did and made a significant improvement in sailing speed and tweak-ability so IMO it is almost an essential mod if you want to get the best out of the Oasis under sail.

Overall I am well impressed with the Oasis - in my experience it is a versatile boat with a number of options solo, 2-up, under sail, load carrying, etc and it is also no less fun than the Adventure (which is rather less versatile, overwll, due to being a single).

And the latest 2014 model has steering in both cockpits which I believe to be a marriage saver compared with the old one with steering only for the rear occupant.

Hope this helps.

Au contraire!
Too many steering controls are no good to any marriage.
One steering control is quite enought for most wives...

br thomas

Mark the Shark:
We are long time kayakers and have had many Hobie models over the years. When we started out we purchased a revolution 13 and an Oasis (both the older models back in 2007). The reasoning was we are campers and at the time traveled pretty much full time all over the country and wanted two kayaks to mount on our roof during our travels (those crazy kayaks probably had 200k road miles on them, and were in most any body of water we could find all over the country, we had a blast with them. The reason we got the Oasis was if we had an occasional traveler with us they could ride tandem with me, otherwise I would drive it solo when with just me and my wife. After a while being the independent woman she is meant she had to propel the kayak herself 100% of the time, and we went on many very long excursions roaming rivers (mostly day long excursions). By this time we had 2 revolutions and one Oasis (all on the roof of our SUV). Her preference became to always ride tandem with me, so we could take turns pedaling (the truth is she fake pedal in the back seat, and I end up doing 99% of the pedaling (which I actually don't mind doing, just having her along is huge for me). So after a while the Revos ended up just sitting in the garage and we would take the tandem 90% of the time, so we ended up selling both Revo's. Even if I went out alone, I didn't mind taking the Oasis, though the Revo is a much faster and lighter boat.
In 2010 Hobie released the Tandem Island, and I thought it was perfect for us and our lifestyle (we mostly go in salt water in south Florida (we have houses in Sarasota, FL, and also Key West Florida), with me being Canadian I am petrified of alligators and won't go in any fresh water that has them (pretty much any body of freshwater in Florida has gators FYI).
As a Kayak (without the sails and AMA's) the Tandem Island is considerably faster than any other kayak that Hobie makes (mostly because of the length, longer kayaks are always faster because of the laws of physics). The Tandem Island as a kayak is only slightly longer than the Oasis and only a few lbs heavier, but way more capable, faster, can carry much more gear than the Oasis. To be perfectly honest it is actually easier for me to get the TI onto the roof than it did the Oasis, 1. because it has better hand holds, and 2. since it is longer it is just easier to lift one end then the other than our Oasis was (keep in mind I've loaded both at least on and off the cars 500 to 1000 times each, all by myself, and I'm not a big guy and am also in my mid 60's). Actually if you go by the weight charts in the doctors office my correct height for my weight is 6'5", I have been exercising like crazy for years trying to get my height up to match the charts, but I'm still only 5'8" tall, so obviously the charts are messed up and wrong.
When in your local area and just going on lakes and rivers just leave the sail and AMA's at home, when traveling to the Gulf take the sails and AMA's along with. Like I said as a kayak the TI is way better than the Oasis in my opinion yet there is very little difference in weight and length (not enough to notice, they are both very big and heavy (as are pretty much all tandem kayaks btw). If you can afford the TI it will be the best of all worlds for you. I ended up buying a cheap Harbor Freight trailer for mine (under $200 bucks) which makes taking the boat to the water and launching much more pleasant (10-15 minutes max to launch, we just leave the boat in the garage fully rigged, hook it up to the trailer and were good to go (under 5 minutes)), whether an Oasis or a TI. Whether you have 2 singles, or a tandem it's a lot of work to get them ready (with singles you have to do everything twice, and the total weight and time to rig is actually way more with two singles, I found all that out the hard way). Another big deal that has actually happened to us is we get out somewhere 5-6 hrs from launch, and one of us doesn't feel well, or my wifes (supposed) trick knee is acting up, I end up having to tow her for 6 hrs to get back to launch (this has actually happened many times to us in single kayaks), though if it happened to me I suspect she would just leave me there ( LOL).
To be perfectly honest the way you are talking about the Tandem Island (the perfect boat in my opinion) you will be getting one for sure (I know we did and never looked back (no regrets at all)). Whether you buy a pair of revo 13's (by far my favorite single kayak from Hobie btw), or an Oasis (also a very good choice), or one of each, I just have a feeling you will eventually move up to the TI regardless, so if you can afford it, just go directly to the ultimate platform right away and skip all the middle steps that we went thru (of course this is all just my opinion). Pretty much every TI owner I know has gone down this exact same road.
Another really big deal about the TI is if you buy the tramp option, we take 3-4 (and more) out on our TI all the time, it is in my opinion the SUV of the industry, you can use it for anything you can imagine, including offshore (we would never take our Oasis, or Revo offshore btw, only in protected waters and always within 1/2 mile of shore "ever"). With the TI a typical day for us can be 30-50 miles (we snorkel, scuba dive, and spear fish off of our TI mostly in open water (ocean))
Hope this helps you make your decision
Bob

Wow Bob, thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my posts. It is responses like yours and stobbo's that attracted me to the Forum. Tapping into this vast knowledge base of experience is invaluable to someone like me. At my age I want to make as few mistakes as possible especially on big purchases.

Bob, as you could probably tell I really want a TI because of its versatility and chance to try sailing. I have always viewed motor boats as holes in the water to put your money and therefore never wanted one. Even more so when I saw my brother filling up his and watching the gas pump reach $200.00. The TI just seems to be a very worthwhile investment so the cost is not a concern. It is rather hard to find a TI for rental around here but I may have found one yesterday. The Hobie dealers owner takes you out on lake Lanier for a demo at $40 a pop which I consider a deal. So after the demo I may be able to rent one there. However, I especially would like to take A TI up to Lake Jocassee to explore the lake under sail and then anchor in a cove with a waterfall for an afternoon picnic. Don't know if he would allow me to do that. Plus taking a boat out of the state like that may be a violation of some GA/SC rules I would think.

https://sp1.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608016 ... d=15.1&P=0

http://www.carolinaboatclub.com/images/Picture026.jpg

Sail boats have always intrigued me but I was always afraid I wouldn't be able to handle anything big after I capsized a small sailfish in the Gulf in my 20's. So the idea of having the AMAs for my safety is wonderful. My only concern is transporting a TI via trailer.

Stobbo, thanks so much for also taking the time to read my post and reply. The second mast sounds intriguing as I have read elsewhere that the single sail Oasis experience is not that great. Grateful if you could kindly keep me posted as to your results as twin masts sounds like it would be a great experience. One question though is how do you transport your Oasis? Have looked into a Thule 897XT Hullavator but don't know if it can handle an Oasis? Transporting on top of my RX350 and not having to use a trailer would be a primary reason in getting an Oasis rather than a TI.

Mark, when I have need to transport the Oasis it just goes on top of the car in cradles mounted on standard rack bars.

I have found that cradles make the process of loading and unloading very easy: I have a Volvo wagon and I cover the back of the car and the rear cradles with a rug, then, from the kayak lying on the ground with the stern pointing directly at the rear of the car, I lift the stern (always) of the kayak onto the rug-covered car and then go round to the other end of the kayak and lift and push the boat from the bow into the rug-covered cradles until it is in the correct position before dropping the bow down into the front cradles and removing the rug from the rear. Transporting the boat stern first means that the rudder doesn't need to be bungeed and the seat backs can be pushed flat to reduce windage. The cradles are a very secure way to transport and you really don't need much strap tension to hold them in place.

From a personal POV I think one of the real benefits of a kayak over a boat is its low cost and usability. For me, the problem with the TI is that it really is a bit of a boat - with all that goes with that and in particular the issues of size for storage, portability and transport (which really requires a trailer thus increasing the cost, making the storage issue that much greater and, overall, increasing the amount of overall effort that is required to sustain your hobby). For me, the Oasis is a far less expensive, time-consuming and committing proposition and as much fun.

The other aspect of the AI & TI which I would consider is the amount of spray you get when sailing; this may not be an issue in warmer waters but personally I prefer to sail slower but stay drier.

Enjoy !

[quote="stobbo"
From a personal POV I think one of the real benefits of a kayak over a boat is its low cost and usability. For me, the problem with the TI is that it really is a bit of a boat - with all that goes with that and in particular the issues of size for storage, portability and transport (which really requires a trailer thus increasing the cost, making the storage issue that much greater and, overall, increasing the amount of overall effort that is required to sustain your hobby). For me, the Oasis is a far less expensive, time-consuming and committing proposition and as much fun.

The other aspect of the AI & TI which I would consider is the amount of spray you get when sailing; this may not be an issue in warmer waters but personally I prefer to sail slower but stay drier.

Enjoy ![/quote]

Hey you must just be waking up! I have been to Auckland for a week once and loved it. You have a wonderful city and very friendly people.

My wife agrees with your POV. I think there is a frustration factor involved with boating and easier is better. I have been told that the Thule Slipstream 887XT would be able to handle an Oasis or even the Thule Roll Model 884. Something with rollers would help as I think with one end on the ground I can lift the other over my head. Since I may be using it myself sometimes how much ballast would I need to go solo or is it even necessary? Do you have any pics of your friends double mast Oasis? Do you ever use the sail solo? Does it handle differently with sail and without sail solo?

Once again thanks for the response.

Mark, lotsa questions

Rollers on the back of the car to assist with loading would probably work well, If you're fit enough to kayak in the first place you should be able to lift any of the Hobies one end at a time. I have found picking them up lock stock and barrel to lift up and onto a car is an entirely different proposition - and I am not unfit - it is just that they are extremely cumbersome to manhandle and it is an even bigger challenge if you also have to turn them over when they are finally on the car - these are the reasons I invested in some cradles - they make cartopping the boats sooooooooo much easier.

Others have posted on ballasting the Oasis for single handing - the standard recommendation is bags of water or sand if you don't want to go to the extent of fabricating something more fancy out of e.g. lead. I have never ballasted mine because it is a 2013 model with front and aft cockpit steering so when single handing it I just jump into the front cockpit which puts your weight only slightly forward of the centre of the boat and it trims well enough with my 200-odd pounds there.

There are two problems with being in the front, though:

Firstly, you can't reach the rods in the rod holders from there (a problem if you're a fisho) - hence my observation that you can move between the cockpits reasonably easily (though a better solution would be to add a rod-holder or two for the front cockpit - shouldn't be too hard or costly);

Secondly, sailing the boat from the front cockpit would be tricky unless you installed another sail in the bow area - you wouldn't really be able to watch the sail to trim it if the sail were behind you!

If you add a foremast & sail and then tried to sail with that as a single sail from the front cockpit, I suspect that you would find that this configuration would only work on points of sail from a reach/broad reach to downwind because of the location of the sail in relation to the point of lateral resistance of the boat (the downwind pressure of a foresail on the bow would constantly be trying to push the bow downwind unless counterbalanced by an aft sail. Similarly a single sail at the stern would tend to make the boat naturally want to steer upwind all the time. Note that the standard mast base is pretty much in the centre of the boat so the boat tracks pretty well with just the standard sail.)

So, as you can probably deduce from all of the above, my answer to your question about the differences between sailing solo and 2-up is that, yes, I am sure it will trim differently depending on which sail (assuming 2) you used, where you sat and how the boat was ballasted.

Personally I am not in a hurry to try single-handed-sailing a two-sailed Oasis from the front cockpit! I have sailed my boat 'almost solo' from the rear cockpit with just the standard sail and some useless ballast (namely t'wife or 10-year-old daughter up front) and my friend's schooner with he and I on board; both made progress, but the latter was a really engaging little sailing boat with quite perky performance and all sorts of options for trimming the sails and keels (pedals) for upwind and downwind sailing, tacking and gybing etc. to keep the helmsman interested, plus the option of handing over trimming the foresail to the crew thus providing the helmsman with someone to curse at

The extra sail did not make the boat feel particularly tippy because of the presence of a lot of the aforementioned useless ballast, but this is said in the context of light-wind sailing only - you won't want to go out in anything strong. And the extra foresail did not make the boat difficult to helm at all - she still tracked well. Without a decent daggerboard you are not going to win any tacking battles in an Oasis, but if you could cobble together a couple of homemade ones (out of old windsurfer daggerboards for example) that would go in the drive wells instead of the drives, I reckon she'd be a proper little snake upwind!

Once again thanks for the feedback and sorry about all the questions. Using the Oasis solo may be a moot point as my wife appears to be rather enthusiastic about a tandem but not so much about lugging around a TI..

Still wondering about the TI and the "wet" factor because the Oasis was dry as a bone albeit on a quiet lake cove. I have been told that there is a dealer in Sarasota that is the largest in FL where I could demo a TI in the Gulf rather than on a lake. Might be worth a drive down to see.

I am planning to go to Dana Point on the 27th of July and try the TI in the Pacific. In the meantime will be going whitewater kayaking here in GA this Sunday. Never tried that before. Hope the experience doesn't take us in a different direction kayak-wise.

Mark:
That was my point about either the oasis or any other tandem kayak for that matter, including the TI kayak only (without the sails and AMA's). They are all large boats. I think the oasis weighs around 86 lbs and the TI kayak is just a few lbs heavier, And in my opinion easier to load on the car (I have owned both), but the extras you get out of the TI kayak are well worth it in my opinion.
When people talk about the TI being a wet ride they are talking about in sailing mode in rough open water and ocean, not a place you can take an oasis. In kayak mode only the TI and oasis are pretty equal as far as staying dry goes.
Hope this helps
Bob

BTW: One of our favorite pastimes with our kayaks is white water kayaking, we have done it all over the country for years, our limit is class II rapids (on the mild side). We have used our Revo's, Oasis, and TI (in kayak mode) many times running rapids, they are actually pretty good at it as long as you remember to raise the rudder, remove the mirage drives and leash them just before going down the tube, then we put them back in and pedal thru the deep slow areas (the best of all worlds for us). I don't know why but we seem to have better luck running tandem down the rapids where two people with paddles are controlling the boat vs singles, when were by ourselves on single kayaks we always seem to flounder (well someone anyway, not mentioning any names LOL), then all the local residents downstream get to cash in on all of the stuff she lost. These boats are surprisingly durable, I can't tell you how many boulders and logs we have bounced off of.

Bob,

You make an excellent case for the TI in all regards and my concerns about owning one are completely manageable. I guess, what I am hesitating with is most TI owners live near Ocean or Gulf. Therefore is a TI suitable for mostly lake use and the occasional Gulf trip?

The more I search this forum the more information I find re: car topping, trailers, etc. that lessen my fears of making the wrong choice in kayak. Although I did come across a post of yours that said:



That is the type of info I was looking for because I was getting the impression a TI was NO FUN on a lake. Also found several TI lake videos on YouTube.

Wow Bob, just saw all the mods on your TI. Mods that enable you to sail even in very light winds sounds interesting. TI looking better and better for me. Wife may have to get her own Kayak!

Hello,
We have two rev 11 and love them. Mine is outfitted with pontoons and standing platform because I fly fish. Neither of us has sailed at this time but all reports they do well. Some use hobie pontoons for stability and let it rip. Kayaks are similar to canoes in that the longer they are,the faster. The 13 is faster but not by much and is more difficult to load. I thought the Thule lift were close to design load with the revo 11s. Mine were installed on a 2010 f150 truck which I loved but was still difficult with my recent shoulder replacement. Your vehicle will be lower but you will spend some time loading / unloading. Furthermore, you are 66 years old make this easy for yourself. We also equipped our kayaks with the evolve rudder electric motor. We paddle out / motor in. May I suggest a price comparison with loaders vs trailer. The Malone kayak trailer has real tires and frame. Used all over Pacific Northwest, crappy put ins, marginal roads has performed well. If you buy one, check out wiring and add some protection. Put on bearing buddies, add spare hub and it's unlikely you will have problem. IMO wouldn't touch a tandem kayak. Really not versatile. Again, get a kayak cart and trailer, at busy launches, unload / put on carts,walk to water. Remember, the lighter, easier you make kayaking the more you will kayak and for a longer time. Hope this helped and a friend of ours an Islander which sets under their deck most of the time. Finally, the revos are a lot of fun.
Pete

okpete,

Well, two Revo 11's would be easier to load, unload and haul around. Ya got me thinking again about a big kayak.