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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:04 pm
Posts: 615
Location: Hawaii, Big Island
Had to get a new sail do to loss of old one (don't ask-they sink fast).

Probably more experimenting in mid January.

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 Post subject: Clearly a mutinous sail
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:18 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:32 pm
Posts: 142
Whether it was a disloyal sail mutiny or one of those unavoidable maritime tragedies, I am sorry you require a replacement sail.

Look forward to your posts whenever and on whatever.

Happy holidays!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:47 am 
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Location: Tallahassee, FL
Dang Dan,
You are really pushing the limits of fishing for big pelagics while under sail. I went back and re-read your post and links again about the green stick technology, and trying to adapt it to a yak. That is a really creative and seemingly difficult project you have taken on in trying to down-size those babies for use on a yak, especially while under sail.

Also, there sure is not much info, nor many diagrams of how one goes about setting up a greenstick rig. I did finally find the diagram below that helps explain the technology pretty well, along with the below text from:

http://www.alltackle.com/greenstick_fishing.htm

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“Green Sticks were introduced to Hawaii in the early 80's by the Japanese, these commercial trolling "green sticks" are tremendously successful not only in Hawaii, but also off the east coast of the U.S., Costa Rica, Panama, and Mexico. The generic from "green stick" (the color of the original brand of sticks introduced into Hawaii at the time) has been applied to all heavy-duty fiberglass and carbon-fiber (graphite) sticks used in this type of fishery. The green stick is used to elevate and tow a 20-30# wooden bird up to 400 yards behind the vessel. The bird serves two purposes; (1) keep the main line taut (a key component to the action of the lures), and (2) act as a teaser to attract fish to the surface. Dangling from the mainline between the boat and bird are 4-10 drop lines with artificial squid lures that dip in and out of the water (the lures are not as effective if simply dragged along the surface, since the danglers mimic flying fish). Hard striking tuna have been known to launch themselves a full body length out of the water in an attempt to devour the irresistible jumping squid lures. When hooked up, the mainline releases from the green stick by breaking the tagline, is reeled in by hand or by electric or hydraulic reels. An inflated poly ball is used to float the bird and is positioned behind the bird.â€

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:27 pm 
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Posts: 615
Location: Hawaii, Big Island
Note that in a sport versus comercial application the squid lure is connected to a separate line to a rod versus the mainline directly. It's hung off the mainline at the proper height from a breakaway rubber band.

With a PB you might have 4-6 rods rigged this way.

With my rig only the last lure is attached to my single rod setup. The last squid generally gets 60-65% of the hits.

The remaining lures are hung off the mainline per usual, but with no hooks and 4lb test to easily breakway either from a fish OR

me yanking them off as I reel in the mainline (if I can ever find the time to get it out of the way)

Also with only a 10 foot mast the lures wll be a lot closer to the yak.

So besides getting the rig working, getting it to catch fish may (hopefully not) also be a problem.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:46 pm 
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Posts: 615
Location: Hawaii, Big Island
Today I tried out a simpler rig. Just using the sail mast as an outrigger.

First rig was for bait trolling. Threaded a 12' loop of nylon cord though the eyelet on the top of the mast I previously post pics on.

Secured a clothesline like snap to it for getting the line up to the top of the mast.

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Here's a shot at sea with the sail furled and pin up at the top.

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Feeding the one segment of the loop up and pulling the other down gets the colthesline snap down.

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I had alread deployed my bait 100-150 feet behind the yak. Inserting a loop in the clip I then raised it to the top of the mast.

You can now see the start of the slack loop from the clip to the rod.

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The clip must be set light so the line is easily pulled out by the fish. The loop gives him time to swallow the bait.

Does it work with sail deployed.?
Yes!

I got a hookup I'll describe in a second post.

PS Pics with my new Pentax Optio 20W

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Last edited by AlohaDan on Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:04 pm
Posts: 615
Location: Hawaii, Big Island
Anyway a school of aku (skipjack tuna) surfaced between me and my fishing partner Reggie. Rather than feeding on the surface they were jumping so high something was feeding on them.

We closed on the action, but without much hope. They are very fast movers, small fast boats have a tough time keeping up with them.

I really didn't expect much too happen. Reggie was wearing a hat video cam. I was going to show the release from the clip as I sailed along.

But he hooked up! We were in the right place at the right time ! Reggie was screaming ahi! As I had already intended to release the line and slack loop I glanced skyward to see the line being pulled from the clip. About 4-5 seconds later the reel was screaming. I was hooked up, the slack loop had done it's job.

Pardon the yak in the photo, I keep trying to get him to switch, but he ended up with ~ 20lb ahi.

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Me? after 100-150 feet of line being ripped off my 40 lb :P tuna :D broke the line! :cry:

Or so I thought. Turned out it got caught in the bird I was trailing about 20 feet aft to raise something, and the line got sawed on nylon cord.

Couple of points here:

1. The clip on a loop to the top of the mast works.

2. You will have some difficulty getting the loop to not tangle with other stuff, but with experience you can work it out.

3. So why bother with a loop? You don't get the fish to feel any pull, even with your reel set on clicker only. Gives him time to swallow the bait. Also you can get the bait up on the surface a bit more, maybe make it skip.

4.You have to watch out for the line from the clip to the bait rubbing against the top of the sail. Need a device to mount ontop of the mast so the eyelet moves the up and down pulley above the sail edge. Could also serve as a radar reflector mount. Matt another add on for you.

5. If you use a lure with an Island (since you sail faster) subsitute a rubber band for the clip. Here you want a hard pull on the initial strike.

Scouts honor I'll get back to the green stick soon.

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 Post subject: Sweeet!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:03 pm 
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Awesome. Way to push the envelope.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:04 pm
Posts: 615
Location: Hawaii, Big Island
Well (censored) happens sometimes.

Like this snag of the outrigger pulley.

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I've since clipped back the end of the batten rod (the insertion end) so it doesn't stick out so much.

Here's a shot of my new mast extension to get up to 12'. Just some dowel shoved down the sail hem pocket.

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I am running that as the "Green Stick". From the cockpit I run a 20lb test line to the
top than have 100 feet of line out to my planner board (need help here see below). In the
cockpit itself the line runs off an old Alvey I resurrected.

Using some elementary calcs I placed, measuring from the board , back toward the top of
the mast (that's the hypotenuse of the 12' tall triangle) dropper loops at 33.3 feet, 41.6,
50, and 58.3 feet. Admittedly somewhat close to the yak, but I want to get the procedure
down first and worry about results later.

Next I took 3 small squid lures and attached them without any hooks to 4lb test in lengths
of 5 feet, 6 feet and 7 feet. At the ends I tied trout snap hooks so could attach these to the
green stick line at the 41.6,50, and 58.3 foot dropper loops.

Here's the squids. Much like apalch posted.

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My commercial neighbor says he gets 65%of his hookups on the furthest squid so that's
where my single line goes. The 33.3 foot loop is where the rod squid goes. It's four foot
80 lb leader, small squid with a 6/7 0 hook attached to my reel line snap hook. The snap
hook is rubbered to the dropper loop with the lightest rubber band I have been able to
find. (I don't want any strain on my sailing mast from a monster ahi.)

I'm not interested in the planner board creating action to raise fish. although I have
thought about attaching my small bird to it. If you read the history of the stick method the
primary purpose is to hold the line out there. But on a yak you have a big problem. Seeing
aft all the time without killing yourself.

So I invested in a Church Walleye board to get the line out to the side. Doesn't really work,
maybe angles only 10 degrees instead of 85-90 I would like.

I have hooked up only to the front attachment. There is no lure behind as it is designed
for. Does it need a direct drag aft effect to angle correctly? The bird doesn't seem to do it. Here it is in action by itself [click for larger image]:

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Also not sure if I have enough speed to pull this off. Probably only pooping along at 5
knots, 6 max when I have the right breeze. Does the board need more speed to angle out?
Maybe someone can help me test the planner board?

Anyway as I ease the board out I add the squids to the green line. The rod line is the key.

I'm going to have to switch to colored mono soon. I can't see my clear stuff and it's crucial
the rod line is let out equally with the green line. I've added a dental floss marker to the
rod line at 77 feet so I don't let out too much and get a entanglement loop.

I've gotten the contraption to work a couple of times in the past with the last squid
dancing, but need more work on avoiding entanglements.

As I have described previously for the last few months I have been working at fighting fish when I hooked up under sail. I
have the routine down fairly good for luffing the sail, furling it, and actually stowing the
mast if required for large ones, while fighting the fish.

So I have added the problem of getting the green line itself out of the way.

I'm envisioning still luffing the sail,maybe even furling it before handling the green stick
line. My inclination now is to get the line out of the way first. I can crank the Alvey pretty
fast. The squids? That's the reason for the 4lb test. I may even go 2 lbs as I intend to just yank 'em off as they go by and toss 'em into the cockpit.

I'll answer how do I get into the porpose school later.

See other posts for weather I sometimes work in.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:56 am
Posts: 822
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Dan asked earlier:
Quote:
Also what other species feeds big on cephalopods?


Dan--I hesitate to mention perhaps the biggest squid feeder on the biggest squids of them all, for fear that you might decide to target them too. :!:

Ahh well, why not--it's the sperm whale! :mrgreen: But I believe that one may even be beyond your talents and abilities, but think of the sleigh ride possibilities!!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:24 pm 
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Posts: 615
Location: Hawaii, Big Island
Sperm whales?

I only fish for the white ones.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:47 am 
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Posts: 615
Location: Hawaii, Big Island
So I'm testing some Otter Boards to get the line out to the side of the yak.

I think they will prove very fruitful, particularly for the Adventure Islander.

Use is not only for the Green stick, so I can how things are going, but perhaps to put my bait line out there also . Visual thrill, etc.

If your familiar with Jim Rizzuto's books this is out of Vol 3. If not checkout Invader Downriggers "Side Tracker" at:

http://www.invaderdownriggers.com/sidetracker.htm

[scroll to bottom of above to see sketch]

We found the Church Walleye Board to be too small for ocean use. Using Rizzuto's figures we made a 24" model using metal stiffing rod as the weight on the bottom of a 1 x 4 redwood plank . We choose Redwood because it is light. You need to paint it to avoid water absorption, however. Ours is orange so you can see it. Note the angle the unit is slanted is for it to run on the port side.


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Here's a shot of the completed board with the Church for comparison. As I stated it worked reasonably well with only an eye screw. Rizzuto says we need a 6" eyebolt to maintain the correct angle which we are in the process of procuring.


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So why am I making two boards?

The Sidetracker test model (no pics) I made worked fantastic before falling apart. Just mount the two Otter Boards askew per Invader's diagram, and the unit pulls hard.

I'll be running tests over the next month to see what works best. But if your into sailing, or pedaling at roadrunners high 60 RPMs then you may want one of these babies. If nothing else it eliminates creaky neck from having to look backwards all the time.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:42 am 
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Awesome. Watching your reports with interest.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:04 pm
Posts: 615
Location: Hawaii, Big Island
Thanks dwest. How's the cat?

For those that want to join me without a copy of Rizzuto's book see:

http://www.quintefishing.com/make_your_ ... boards.htm

About the model I'm working on. Note first my use of tensioner bars on the bottom planner edges as weights, however.

And why I am doing this with all the other commecial stuff on the market? All planner boards are not equal:

http://www.downtimecharters.com/Ideas/P ... boards.htm

If I can get an easily modifed model working I can fool around for a year till I get it really right for conditions here, then build the right stuff.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:43 pm 
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Location: Hawaii, Big Island
Update-I haven't given up.

Here's the latest board.

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Works somewhat. Very jerky in swells and chop. May be too much strain for hobie mast.

May try wider boards like article I posted.

But in the meantime am having sailing rig problems. when I get those squared away will try again.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:55 pm 
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Location: Hawaii, Big Island
Been asked about a status report.

I have a new 07 Adventure Hull replacement, but am waiting on AI upgrade. Have come to the conclusion I cannot do green stick with small sail.

Also my S&G design hull replacement is going very slooooowly. I have my fingers crossed about starting construction in November. Design incorporates all AI sailing fittings.

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