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 Post subject: 21 sc comp tip upgrade??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:58 am
Posts: 20
Location: Brighton MI
I heard there is a comp tip upgrade that will keep the sail from pulling out of the comp tip. Does anybody have any other information? Part number, success with it, etc...
Any way to modify the existing comp tip to keep the sail in better? Mine always pulls out eventually.
Thanks,
Dan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:39 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:34 am
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Location: Banana River , Fl
You too?? I share the same problem. I *think* I heard, but won't swear to it, that the newer luff tracks are stiffer than the old, but are also a PITA to replace. Sounds like a question for Matt.

I'm in the process now of getting the parts together to make a s/s halyard that won't stretch. West Marine has a chart in their catalog comparing the stretch rates under load of different lines. Wire stretched the least @.37", followed by Endura 12 @ 1.11". Sta-Set had the most @ 5.58" of stretch. While 1.11" may not sound like a lot, I fear that even that amout may allow the pull out to start, and once it starts...it's all over.

My thoughts are, and I could be wrong, if you don't allow the halyard to stretch, the sail won't be allowed to be pulled down and out. I'm also thinking about of taking some of that 3" wide self adhesive sail repair tape and wrapping it around the first two feet of the luff. Hopefully a slight build up will be enough to be too big to pull through the slot.

Good luck

BTW, you might also read this thread "H21 SC issues" In it Matt discusses the new luff track.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:36 am 
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Location: Massachusetts
I started having this problem just a few years ago so it may have something to do with boltrope wear, I'm still using the original main. I did get the tip upgrade from a Texas Hobie dealer. See the Dog on the 21SC post, excellent service, Doug is real pro. It's an aluminum extrusion that matches the sail track and only replaces that portion of the mast, not the entire tip. It's a bit tricky to get on, you can chip the comptip material as it is somewhat brittle. I did it by snapping it on without removing the masthead which some have done, then it just slides on.
I can't tell if it works yet as I have not sailed it since the end of last year but the aluminum is definitely not at all flexible in the sail track width so I cannot see how the sail could pull out now.


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 Post subject: Upgrade?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:58 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
The 21 Sport cruiser has always had sections of aluminum at the full hoist and reef hoist points. We have never offered an "upgrade".

The track that is available that is stiffer is the plastic one we use on the Getaway. That can be installed on the 21 Sport Cruiser to replace the plastic sections.

Key to avoiding luff rope pull-out is to be sure the sail head is in an aluminum section at all times while sailing.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:43 am 
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Location: Massachusetts
I'm talking about the SE, Matt. It has a plastic luff track all the way along the comp tip. Doug, "Dog", your dealer in Texas, told me about it so I got one and I put it on my SE mast at the end of last year to solve the boltrope pullout problem that my sailmaker has been unsuccessfully trying to solve for a few years now.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:12 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:40 am
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Location: Dallas, TX
Part number 50404101 if I remember correctly. $27.10

Brian C

(thanks BB)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:55 am 
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Location: Massachusetts
Sorry Brian. I don't know where I got Doug from.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:01 pm 
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Location: Dallas, TX
No worries.... I've been called worse.

Brian C


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 Post subject: Doug... Dog maybe?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:34 pm 
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Doug... Dog maybe?

.
Quote:
21 sc comp tip upgrade??
led me astray...

Yeah that makes more sense. The H21 (SE) didn't have the aluminum sections.

One additional thing... Many luff pull-out issues are actually related to the use of a "Aussie" halyard ring with welded shackle to ring. These can peel the luff right out of the track when the mast counter rotates

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Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:34 am
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Location: Banana River , Fl
What I'm considering doing, and stop me before I screw up, is using about 28 feet of S/S wire rope with the sail head end terminated with a elongated "D" shackle that has been drilled out and terminated with a wire stop rather than a thimble.

The original owner of my boat had this issue of the sail pulling out from the luff. I replaced the original halyard with a new, pre-stretched line, but not the Endura 12, and even though I feel certain the main was raised and stretched to it's max. I still suffered several pull outs. The funny thing is the boat never being pushed to it's limits either. Just casual sailing.

My brother in law who had the SE version, is tryng to convince me to mod my mast with a catch like the SE. For now I'd just like to see if using S/S wire rope won't do the trick. Still I find it odd that it seems like this is the only Hobie model that did not not have some sort of a catch system at the top of its mast.

Thoughts anyone? Matt as always your input is appreciated.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:04 pm 
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Location: Massachusetts
Matt,
Counter rotated? Sail to port, mast rotator to starboard?


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 Post subject: Counter rotated
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:49 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
Beachboy wrote:
Matt,
Counter rotated? Sail to port, mast rotator to starboard?


Yep... if the shackle is welded to the ring, it peels the sail right out of the track. The aluminum section prevents it, but the welded shackle is the likely original problem. The original loose shackle and ring combo was harder to get hooked (required technique I wrote about in the FAQ section about hoisting sails), but the loose connection allowed some universal joint action.

Not to say there are not other causes too... cracked tracks, worn luff ropes etc.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:51 am 
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Quote:
I'd just like to see if using S/S wire rope won't do the trick.


Stopping the stretch or using more purchase on the halyard to get the needed tension... either should work. The wire halyard defeats the safety of the CompTip though. It would conduct electricity.

We used a standard halyard without hook / catch to more easily allow reefing.

A second aluminum section below the top one would also do the trick.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:08 am 
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Location: Massachusetts
I had my sailmaker put some cringles in my 21SE main at the second batten for a single reef point. I converted the outhaul purchase to a hook which works fine. It does, however, require me to lower the main fully, install a section of halyard the length of the reef with quick releases and a sail track slug to hold the ring in place. Then I raise the halyard with the sial head on the end, raise it to the hook and catch the lower cringles with my hooks and roll up the remainder of the sail.
If you are going to sail the 21SE with only two on board the boat is underweighted for anything above 12-15 kts and the reef really helps keep it flat and it still goes like snot. The idea of a low stretch halyard would obviously make it much easier.
The 21SE with only two aboard is exceptionally quick in light <10kt., winds. It also allows me to add some the daysailing stuff we like to carry, like the little 2 hp kicker and a couple of small coolers full of clams and striped bass.
I'm going to try the Aussie ring change.
BTW, I think some of the new type of super low-stretch ropes would be a great replacement for the wire halyard.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:39 am 
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Location: Banana River , Fl
Matt you raised a good point about conducting electricity. I may opt for using Endura 12 or Crystalyne halyard.

I'm still not sold on the additional aluminum track though. The luff pull outs I've experienced have all started in the top section of track. I can't recall any that have made it down to the second section before we beached to correct it. Maybe there's something you know, that I'm not seeing here?

Adding a hook, is going to be a last resort remedy. I'm not really keen on doing it either.

I have another question, and this comes from a debate I'm having with someone else. I'm of the opinion that the halyard needs to be raised as high as possible and to stretch the crap out of it in doing so. The opposing view is if you pull the halyard too tight, you will force the shackle to ride up and out from the pulley. This therefore causing the luff to pull out from the track. Do you have any thoughts on this?

Thanks

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