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 Post subject: AI sailing limits?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:03 pm
Posts: 42
Location: California Delta
Was sailing in the Delta this afternoon. Gusting winds approx. 10mph, big wind chop so I reefed to 1/2 and sailing fine. Large stink pot plowed by and added a large wake to the mix. I heard a loud bang and the downwind ama/aka strut folded on me. I capsized and watched my daggerboard do a Titanic. The ama/aka strut was no longer, just a piece of composite with the pin. The ironic part of this is I just this morning picked up the replacement strut angle (IMOL602)(another story) from the dealer. Now I need the complete strut and a new daggerboard. I need to know if I'm sailing in conditions that stress the equipment? I know the rep said if used as designed those angles won't fail. It was attached as designed, so is there a conditions limit?
Sorry so long, but frustrating. Damm it was fun until that broke. Had no problem recovering from the turtle and TG for the pedals. The strut assembly on the pre-official parts list only has ?????? as part number. Will that cause a problem for the dealer ordering?

Thanks, Bill


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:36 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2243
Location: Maui, Hawaii
Sorry to hear of your "break". I've been through it a couple of times, but both times with brand new AI's (possibly shipping issues) and no flipping.

A couple of suggestions.

1. We clip the daggerboard bungee to the boat using the seat clip to not lose it. From years of whitewater kayaking I attach everything in the boat so if there is a problem, I don't worry about "stuff" leaving.

2. After the first aka strut broke, we added a bow line from the bow handle to the side bungee, which just happens to be the same length from one end of where the ama/aka meet to the other aka (same side) attaches to the boat. So with 2 of them crossed (X) it holds the ama out to finish you sail. It's surprisingly secure, but will make paddling hard on that side (if you ever paddle).

Happy sailing.

Bob


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:03 pm
Posts: 42
Location: California Delta
Bob, thanks for the reply. I thought about the daggerboard to seat clip as I left the launch. But how was I ever going to turtle an AI. Now $100.+ later I have the answer. The lines for the ama is great idea, beats holding the aka and trying to steer with the same hand.
Do you think my size, 6'3" 260, and 2-3' chop is more than the AI can handle? I wanted my skill level to be the limit not the equipment.
Thanks again, Bill
2X Hobie 16's
Hobie 17
Hobie 18
2006 Hobie Adventure (couldn't convert to AI)
2006/7 Hobie AI


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2243
Location: Maui, Hawaii
I think it was a freak mishap, and possibly, the plastic piece was already damaged and just waiting for some stress to pull apart.

You'll see when you get a replacement and try to insert it, it's a tight fit and could of held, even cracked, for a while. Hobie made the piece with the 2 plastic bolts on each end to shear instead of the plastic breaking, but I've yet to hear about someone shearing the bolts. I think the plastic pieces (at least new) hold too well to stress the shear bolts.

Also, the aka braces could easily get damaged when the akas are not on the boat, so we've started to use the ball bungees that we carry on the akas to secure "stuff" to secure the bar to the akas when not in use. After sailing, we disassemble the boats (up to 3 so far) and just put the akas in the back of our pickup to transport, then rinse off everything at home and properly put away. Keeps most of the sand and salt out of the bags for storage and the trip back to the beach.

You're only the second person I've heard that's turtled an AI. The other did it while launching with the amas folded in.

I'm about 175-180 but seem to carry most of our gear including an anchor (for snorkeling) and emergency gear, so probably getting closer to your weight. We've also had many different size/weight people in the boats. When the wind gets up to 15-20's here we get at least 5' wind waves and have never felt that the boat wouldn't "hold together".

I think the most jarring the boat takes is parallel to it's side so crossing the next wakes at angles should stress it less.

So, just, get it fixed, and go back out and have fun. :) And when you're not boating, plan out what you might need for self-rescue, and to minimize damage and loss and to continue your sail. Then share your ideas here (or at the KFS forum) with the rest of us.

Happy Sailing!

Kayaking Bob


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:40 am
Posts: 952
Location: Dallas, TX
Blew an Aka in 10mph winds? :shock:

I must be reading something wrong.

I took one out in 20+ winds (beating, beaming, reaching) with maybe a couple of wraps of sail around the mast. Was out for several hours. It was a wet ride and I had a couple of gallons in the boat and about 1/2 gallon in one ama (loose plug) when I got back. But the boat ran like a champ.

Brian C
190 lbs, 5'11"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:56 am
Posts: 822
Location: Tallahassee, FL
The AI should have held up better than that. I mean, when ShallowMindedII started the WaterTribe Challenge in Tampa Bay a month back, he had 6-10 inches of solid water (not waves!) across his lap on more than one occasion, and waves 1.5 feet above his head, that's right--ABOVE HIS HEAD that he plowed through! With winds of 15-18 knots and 2-3 foot swells that he was simply plowing straight through also, not riding up and over! Pretty doggone wild, is all I can say!

Here is an excerpt from his short version of the trip:

"Hi Hobie-Kats......... all I can say is ya should have been there! This report will be short & to the point of view of you guys. More to follow later when I get a chance to catch up on things. First, all 295 miles in 5 days & at least 2 different Small Craft Warnings and I did not manage to break anything on my AI. I finished the same way I started (but I did wear down the tips of my turbo fins a little). WaterTribe fleet started Saturday morning to Small Craft Warnings across Tampa Bay, winds 15-18knots 2-3 rollers. Made it tuff for some, at 3 of the kayakers got rolled and had to do self rescues, at least 1 (if not 2) sailboats got demasted, another hit a dockside sink and started to take on water, another kayak w/sail rig took on water and snap it's mast. So after 7-9 miles crossing Tampa Bay at least 5 boats were already DNF. I took an outside route into the Gulf and was having the time of my life, but soon the seas& winds got too high. I knew I couldn't win the race in the first 10 miles, but i could lose my race in the first 10 miles if I didn't take care. Headed in the first pass I came to. As usual the pass was very ruff with with an off shore shore bar that caused the rollers to stack up to 3'-5' range had no problem with the white stuff. But, suddenly I was faced with a wave set that got stacked up in front of me instead of behind my. I remember looking down at my GPS at around 6.5mph as I hit the wave. I didn't climb over the wave I went thru it.... the wave was about a 1.5' above my head.... I went thru the wave, not over it...solid water over my head. Came out the other side & thought what a way to start my morning! With a reef to the shorter batten my speeds were anywhere from 5's to 9's. Took the ICW for the rest of the day. No problems with rudder control, just reef. But, I lost count of the number of times I had solid water to the mast. After 3 hours in the Gulf pumped out a couple of gallons of water (a recurring issue).

On Sunday night South of Sanibel Island/Fort Meyers in the Gulf I experienced my most exciting/scary night of my sailing career. By sunset the winds had climbed from 5-8knots to 15-18 knots and 3'-5' rollers driven by a North wind. These were the type of wave sets that you hear before you see/feel them. After dark with no moon light it was difficult to time the sets. but, for 4-5 hours I surfed downwind staying in control most of the time. GPS speeds were all over the place... from 4's to over 10, depend where on the wave set I was. Lost track of how many times I had solid water past the mast & across my lap... I mean water that was 6"-10" deep across my legs while moving at 5-7mph. Never felt like the AI was totallllly out of control. The ability of the AI to climb back out a underwater condition was never in doubt."

In fact here is a video showing all the WaterTribe boats lined up and ready to go, including the AIs. You can also see (and hear) that the conditions were less than optimal for a 300 mile race around the southern tip of Florida.

http://www.windriderforum.com/stuff/EC2007.wmv

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 Post subject: IMOL602
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:48 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9307
Location: Oceanside, California
The fork part is being redesigned and a more forgiving plastic is spec'ed. This is a part that we are having issues with. Not sure if they are varying in strength, but they are failing before the intended shear bolt. They don't handle latteral loads well. Usually are broken by leaning on the strut before it is connected to the hull.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:03 pm
Posts: 42
Location: California Delta
You all make good points. The problem was, I had just replaced the part. When I left the launch I was watching that connection on both sides. I noticed they both moved a small amount in and out. I don't think the fit is all that tight.
Turtleing an AI is very fast and easy when the downwind ama folds in 10-15 mph winds and 3+ wave. Self rescue is a strong point, more than my sailing ability.
I read that article after posting the question, and was impressed with the boats ability. I have owned the boat for 2 weeks and had it out 6-7 times and each time learning more.
If you are having a problem with it sailing too fast spend an hour sailing and pedaling with the wheels in. My excuse was I needed the intense cardio workout. :oops:
Never take my posts as being negative about Hobie crafts, I had a smile on as I made my way back with the broken wing. After all, I wasnt swimming and the boat could be fixed simply. :D
Thanks for the input, Bill


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:12 am
Posts: 433
Location: Florida
I'm confused here. What struts are we talking about breaking?

My struts are aluminum tubes and the only plastic is the sheer bolt, the spring end that fastens to the hull and the end pivot point of the strut.

Oh, and are we using the term strut to also indicate what is also called a crossbrace. Or are these 2 different items.

Never had a problem flipping after some 400 miles of Island use since Oct. '06, some of it in gnarly weather. But I want to know what parts to pay attention to, or carry replacements for.

TIA

Yakaholic


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:36 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:03 pm
Posts: 42
Location: California Delta
Yakaholic, The part Im talking about is the part the sheer bolt goes through. I have the problem that the part breaks before the sheer bolt. I broke the first one out of carelessness. The second one which was a new replacement is the one Im posting about. I gather it may have been a fluke or .......? Anyway, the one on the otherside hasn't failed and I sail both directions so its as stressed as the one that broke. Both failures were at the drilling for the sheer bolt.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:12 am
Posts: 433
Location: Florida
OK, Yea I see it now.

If the arm got bent the wrong way the plastic would break
and it looks like it wouldn't take much to do it either. Crossbrace is designed for load in one direction.

Picking up boat by crossbrace or putting weight on it (getting into boat perhaps) might crack it. Later it fails while on the water. Not that I'm suggesting you did any of these things - I'm just thinking out loud here.

Weight be danged. Maybe that part should be metal and not plastic. Let the shear bolt be the correct and only "point of give" on the boat.

The only thing that should collapse the arm is shear pin breaking, and that should only break when the ama has struck an object (bridge, boat, dock) when boat is moving. This should be the design objective. Anything less than that need Hobies attention ASAP.

If my wife goes turtle in her Island in 12mph wind and during safe operation because of a failed part, it may be difficult to get her to go sailing again.

I use the boat a lot, trouble free and safe. I want to keep it that way for both our Islands and knowing about this part helps.

Yakaholic

PS
My previous edit was worded poorly. I'm sure my wife could, with my help, manage to right and get in the Island OK. I think the experience of flipping would put a damper on future outings.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:59 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:06 pm
Posts: 49
Location: Long Island, New York
Matt Miller - I for one, am a tad nervous about the cross piece to the ama on the IA breaking now that Bill has "turtled" as a result. What is the order number of the entire piece and assembly? I'll be happy to order and carry an extra just in case like we're doing with the rudder pin. Or should we wait until the newest one is ready?

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Replacement
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:07 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9307
Location: Oceanside, California
The end piece is easily removable. We even provided a replacement shear bolt (two side by side). All anyone needs is the end cap. If one fails, simply furl the sail and pedal if you can not replace on the water. A spare strut would not be much easier to replace. Be sure your replacement end cap is pre-drilled to fit!

You could also carry a couple of lengths of line to cross-tie the amas into place if you had to.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Y fork part
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:06 pm
Posts: 49
Location: Long Island, New York
Thanks, Matt. I got the Y fork end cap part number from your post at Kayak so I'll post it here for anyone who needs it : # IMOL602 . I'm going to order a couple of those Y fork end caps, get the bow lines with clips to hold the ama s in place should the need arise, and sail away, a happy man. Love the Island. Mine is named Slide-A-Time 'cause it slides across the water so nicely. Now if I can just figure out where to mount the custom flag I had made....


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 Post subject: Sailing Cheating
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:41 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:58 am
Posts: 24
Apalach wrote:
The AI should have held up better than that. I mean, when ShallowMindedII started the WaterTribe Challenge in Tampa Bay a month back, he had 6-10 inches of solid water (not waves!) across his lap on more than one occasion, and waves 1.5 feet above his head, that's right--ABOVE HIS HEAD that he plowed through! With winds of 15-18 knots and 2-3 foot swells that he was simply plowing straight through also, not riding up and over! Pretty doggone wild, is all I can say!

Here is an excerpt from his short version of the trip:

"Hi Hobie-Kats......... all I can say is ya should have been there! This report will be short & to the point of view of you guys. More to follow later when I get a chance to catch up on things. First, all 295 miles in 5 days & at least 2 different Small Craft Warnings and I did not manage to break anything on my AI. I finished the same way I started (but I did wear down the tips of my turbo fins a little). .....

In fact here is a video showing all the WaterTribe boats lined up and ready to go, including the AIs. You can also see (and hear) that the conditions were less than optimal for a 300 mile race around the southern tip of Florida.

http://www.windriderforum.com/stuff/EC2007.wmv


Hi Apalach and ShallowMinded II,

Thanks for great post and video. My AI has held up fine in 20+ knot winds and 1 to 2 foot waves under full sail. I do plow through many waves and now look for ways to roll over them by hitting them at an angle or broadside. AI is very maneuverable due to pedals. I feel like I'm cheating when I tack using the pedals, which is always.

I'd like to do a Gulf sail/race sometime. Is there a web site for information? I sail on the Chesapeake Bay.


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