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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:52 pm 
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:) I've never sailed before..I've been on my friends/neighbours sail boat a number of times up at the lake..'booze cruises' mostly..great fun, but I'm just along for the ride and drinkin beer.
I've owned a 'stink boat' for years...17ft - 90 Johnson, blah blah.
The kids are all grown and our last two vacations to the lake it's just been the wife and I. The kids maybe come up a day or two and if the lake is calm enough (rarely) we'll go out for a ski or tube ride.
The price of gas is getting outrageous! Here in Canada we pay a great deal more tax on it than in the States. Gas will soon be going to $1 a litre
(1 US Gal = 3.78 litres) - not cheap.
There was a family up at the lake this year with a Cat like vessel. I say Cat like because it had a third component down the middle...Tri-Hull ?
About 7 or 8 people got into it and away they went. I couldn't believe how many people it held. They were sitting IN the pontoons.
So, I'm thinking maybe Cat sailing looks like a great activity..at least until the gov't figures out how to tax wind!
But, my traditional sailboat owner friends say Yeah, Cats are a blast but you get wet every time out and you're very busy while you're sailing - you don't have time to just kick back and sip a cool one - Cat sailing is very much a 'hands on', total concentration experience.
Yes?, No?
The people shown here in the Hobie Getaway video and brochures look like they're just hanging out having a great time....just glossy advertizing or are my friends right?
I'm thinking the Wave is too small but the Getaway looks like a blast.
We have lots of lakes and no shortage of wind here.

Input please.... :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:32 pm 
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Location: Finger Lakes, NY
:lol:
Listen- First you need to know if you really like to sail, because it IS hands-on and active. You don't just turn a key- you have to rig and adjust and you have to move and you have to be the kind of person who enjoys the challenge. Note that this can become an addiction however. So in fact, the peeps on the Getaway video are sailing addicts and know what they're doing, that's why it looks like they're all laid back and such.

So first go sailing. Mono, Cat or Tri, it doesn't matter. Go out on a dead day when you can relax and sip an oat-soda or two and find out what we all know: any idiot can sail if there's wind, but it takes a genius to sail when there's no wind 8) Then go out in the eye of a storm, when your adrenalin is all you need to be high and your strength and concentration are driven to the levels you never dreamed of unless you were born a madman and then you'll know why some of us say: "at the first sign of storm, we SAIL" :twisted:

Then make up your own mind on the Cat vs Mono thing. If you love sailing the only thing you can say to your mono hulled friends is: "I may be wet, but I'm WAY ahead of you :lol: . Of course our mono-hulled friends usual reply is something like: "I haven't spilled my beer yet- where's yours?"
:roll:

There's positives to any sailing vessel, but if I were to start again from scratch, and I wanted to be able to grab a stable, fast, sail with some friends under most circumstances then the Getaway is the toy to put on your beach. (Oh yeah, and a Sunfish or a Laser too- Can't have too many boats ya know :wink:

Brought to you as a message from the Church of the Latter Day Sailors: The Morons :)

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it....


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:58 am 
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I totally agree. I have both a 21' Precision sloop and a Getaway. I get to have my cake and eat it too. Sloops are slow and dry. Cats are fast and wet. Sloops tip easy at first, then stabilize. Cats start out flat and tip fast. Cats are easy to take anywhere, they're light, and easily handled. They can go more places because they're draft is shallower and they can be beached more easily. Of course, this is a Hobie Getaway forum, so things might be a little skewed. I love them both. The things I benefit from on a sloop are the amenities like music, dry, warm cockpit in the winter, the ability to BBQ, mix drinks, have lights, head, spend the night with some privacy, raft up with buddies, etc. What I get out of a cat is location flexibility, fast, fun & exciting daysailing, staying wet and cool in the summer. There are a lot of similarities between sailing sloops and cats, and just as many differences. I think the idea is to at least be sailing. I get great satisfaction out of not burning any fossil fuels while doing my favorite recreation. If you have to choose between a small sloop and a cat, go cat, they're more flexible, with more suface area. If you go cat, and aren't into extreme sports or racing, go Getaway. They're great for cruising with friends and family. They have enough performance to keep you interested if you want to get jiggy with it, but they have a larger margin of safety than other cats. With the wing seats, they're very comfortable, much more than the Wave I used have (sitting Native-American-style all day is rough on my knees). The two tramps provide a whole lot of surface area for people, dogs, gear, or maneuvering. A few weeks ago, I loaded a couple of coolers, a boombox, and a BBQ and spent the afternoon beached the cat on an island that I would've been extremely hesitant to anchor my sloop off of because of chop and rocks. However, I'm currently dealing with how to rig lights for night sailing, fenders for rafting up, etc. Of course, "It's not getting away from it all if you take it all with you." My $0.02.


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 Post subject: Nicely said!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:20 pm 
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Location: Finger Lakes, NY
I'm surprised that there aren't a few more replies here, but you put it very well clarsen especially "I get great satisfaction out of not burning any fossil fuels while doing my favorite recreation."

Nothing beats it- and I can't believe that you think your Precision 21 is slow :lol: Maybe compared to a J but not compared to a lot of other pocket cruisers. My other boat was a Catalina 25 tall rig and I know I had to give time to a Precision in my club races- like 3+ minutes- you know, basically an eternity in mono-hull time (the J had to give me time so there is a god) But I'll take second place or less, just for a good sailing day, any day :wink:

So HobieWanCanIBe is the force with you yet?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:22 am 
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Don't get me wrong, I bought a Precision 21 because it was a performance sloop, a true sailor's boat. I only meant that the sloop is slow in comparison to the cat. I correlate the amount of time needed to get somewhere (time=distance/rate) with how much beer I have to haul down the dock, so it behooves me to go as fast as possible. Where I normally take a 12-pack on the sloop, I only have to take a 6-pack on the cat. The cat goes at least twice as fast as the sloop under any given conditions (12/6=2). Don't you love when you get to use math in the real world? Of course, that's just one of the many benefits. I'm glad to hear that a relatively small outfit like Precision has a respectable reputation from an independent source. I often hold my own (no pun intended) when going in the same direction as another sailboat (i.e. race), and often point better. I particularly do well downwind. I have the smallest, and newest, sloop in my little circle of sailors, and I'm very happy with it. I will probably move up to something larger one of these days. Maybe a P-28!


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 Post subject: Show me the wind
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:25 am 
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widerisbetter wrote:
any idiot can sail if there's wind, but it takes a genius to sail when there's no wind
OK genius, gimme some tips on light wind getway sailing. For example, which hole in the clew do you stick the mainsheet into? There's five of 'em, and that only gives me a 20% chance of getting it right!

- John (the "I can't even sail when its windy" guy).


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:35 am 
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Location: Finger Lakes, NY
clarsen I LOVE your use of math. You are truly a genius. 8) I hope you don't pee in the water, nobody else does :roll: :lol: Precision is a nice boat. I hope you get your P-28 one day. PS I had a chance to do some balls-to-the-wall on an International 14 a couple weeks ago. THAT is the fastest mono I have ever been on, but you have to be a real acrobat to keep it upright. A Boston-Whaler cat still pretty much blew by us- and without the balancing act going on. .

John I'm definitely not Einstein here and I forgot the whole saying which includes "... it takes a genius or a lot of beer..." Sometimes we think we are a genius, and good looking too, when we drink enough beer of course.

On the adjustments: I think most of the holes are there to reduce weight and make us think that a fine adjustment makes a difference. :? Personally, I would use the hole furthest outboard to keep the foot flat and straight, and ease up on the downhaul to induce the proper sail twist keeping the belly forward and the sail relatively flat. Sheet freely and not too tight. More importantly keep your weight up by the mast or on the hulls forward of the mast so that the rudders are lifted to reduce drag and increase wetted surface along the hulls. Keep the boat on an even keel. Since you will be a while getting back, pace your beer consumption :lol:

PS, I would only use the forward hole(s) to loosen up the power at the leach and de-power the boat as necessary to sail comfortably (under control) in high winds. Anyone else?---

That's my nickle deposit. Mostly- have fun...


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:28 am 
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Aw, shucks! I am smarter than the average bear, but that's about the only claim I can make. I don't know where the pee thing came from, but there is a lot of Vitamin P in Bud Light. I saw a thread on beachcats about installing a head on a cat for the ladies. Personally, I think it'd just be easier to get a less high-maintenance lady.

Anyway, I was going to recommend the same trim principles for an adjustable clew as on genoa tracks, aft = power, fore = depower. I've read to flatten the sail, but I've also read about keeping a decent foil shape, so I'm confused too. I usually just tweak one thing at a time and observe any differences. I don't think weight reduction is a factor :lol: , but you're right, the slight angle differences are just percentage tweaks, considering it's maybe 8" of adjustability on a 16'7" cat. My genoa track 4' long, which makes a difference, geometrically, on a 21' sloop.


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 Post subject: To Hobie or Not to Hobie
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:26 pm 
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8) Thank you all for your input. I haven't got a 'clew' about some of the chatter so I'm not 'gonoa' comment on them :roll:
Since my original post, I have found, what I believe, to be the best choice. Although we are still active, my wife and I are in our 50's and I feel the Hobie is maybe a little too athletic for our needs. The thought of tossing some or all of us into the drink due to my inability to tack or gybe correctly has made me look at a craft with a more sedate nature.
The WindRider 17 looks like a better choice for us. Stability being the key factor. I think I can screw up all day and not throw anyone overboard!
You guys are probably all shaking your heads at this point. I haven't experienced either craft yet (and our short summer is nearly over) but hope to get a first hand look at at least one of them before the season is done.
Again, thanks for the input. 8)
One thing is for sure..the stink boat is gonna be GONE!


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 Post subject: In your 50's?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:14 pm 
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In your 50's?... that is young in the Hobie circles! Don't give up yet.

Sailing the cats can be fast and furious or cruising. Depends on what you want and, of course, the wind. The Getaway video was shot on a day with winds between 2-12 knots. Even up to 15-18, you can cruise. It doesn't HAVE to be wild, wet and scary to be fun.

By the way, I hear that Windriders are pretty wet too.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:48 pm 
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I looked seriously at the Windrider 16 before I bought my Wave four years ago. The 17 is a new, more advanced version, with a jib, which is what I'd look at now. Sounds interesting. However, there is a major difference in the designs. The Windrider has cockpits, that confine you while you're sailing, unless there's some kind of hotstick option for being out on the tramp. That would make me hot and claustrophobic. I like being able to scramble around on my Getaway as needed. Granted a Windrider 17 would be harder to tip, but not impossible. It's just a function of sail plan, beam, and the flotation of the amas. Although a catamaran would be easier to tip, it would also be far easier to right due to the equivalent mass being out of the water. With a trimaran, the amas are smaller, and the large center hull's mass is close the water, giving no leverage. I would take a test sail before I bought anything. Maybe if you asked a dealer that sold both, you'd be more likely to get an objective answer on the athleticism required to sail either. The Windrider 17 is rotomolded like the Getaway, which makes maintenance much easier. You'd have to assemble the Windrider, where a catamaran comes right off the trailer, ready to go. If you go out in anything under 15mph, you should be able to trim to ensure you don't tip. Good luck, and at least you're sailing! Let us know how it goes. Check out their forum.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:20 am 
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:lol:

I agree with miller and clarsen. I personally have no interest in a Getaway because it seems way too tame for me and/or my speed demon spousal unit. Then again, it would be a great boat for the family. I'd rather have a Getaway than most other similar sized mono-hulls and certainly a better choice than the smaller tri's.

I am 51 years old and 160 lbs of undisciplined, fat-ass, chair sitting, modern American. I just spent a week with my 1989 H17 on the clear blue waters of Seneca Lake in some very windy conditions being pushed ahead of east coast Hurricanes. My cousin trailed me in his Boston Whaler clocking me at 15- 18 knots in choppy 2-3 footers. I was trapped out and holding my own on long tacks, keeping it flat and not really pushing it believe it or not- I was comfortable but adrenalined-up too. Later, I took my 74 year old dad on a ride and later in the week I took children of various ages and abilites out with fairly high wind and wave conditions. With the boat tuned down and easily sheeted I was able to offer calm flat and relaxing rides all week, then turn into my evil-twin when I was solo.

True, I have been sailing Hobies since 1970 and sailing everything I could get under my butt since the age of 10. (My need for speed fueled in the early years on the fastest thing that we had- a K boat #27- still preserved and sailing by the way).

However, the point is this: I don't think the waverider is the best option if you want to sail less "athletically". I have found that just getting in and out of the cockpit can present a challenge. The little tri's ARE a ton of fun, don't get me wrong- it is like a high speed Kayak- but the Getaway is definitely the closest thing I have seen to a family level, easily sailed craft. The main reason I would consider one is that I already have a speedster and it would be nice to have something that I can get all the joyriders on at once and get my obligations over as the "sailing-host" more quickly :lol:

Try before you buy.


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