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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:40 am 
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Location: Boynton Beach
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z211 ... rig001.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z211 ... rig003.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z211 ... rig006.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z211 ... rig005.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z211 ... rig006.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z211 ... rig004.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z211 ... rig007.jpg


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:02 am 
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Location: Novato, CA
Awesome thank you for the pictures. What size jib is that?

Also do the stays work very well?

Sorry for all the questions.


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 Post subject: review of above system
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:29 am 
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Location: Boynton Beach
This was the first time out with the sail.

The location was a wide section of the Intercoastal Water Way across from the Boynton Inlet.

The winds were light, but gusted up to 8 - 10 mph.

I was delighted with the way the Jib fit between the mast and the bow eye. The only adjustment needed is to shorten the loop that the top of the jib is attached to - I can't down haul the jib as much as I would like - a couple inches of play would be better.

I sailed with the inflatable amas in the highest position.

The boats performance exceded my expectation and I believe it is going to be a very handy craft..

First: the centerboard that I made is not needed. The boat tracks fine with just the finns. I was able to beat to wind and come about with out having to pedal. If more is needed, I wll get the turbo finns.

I sailed with the flooties and they worked very well in the light air. - though the horror stories about those screws not holding has me a little nervous (so far, so good).

I found the speed to be acceptable. If the wind died down to the point where the boat was just gosting along, a few pedal strokes would put some apparrent wind over the sails and get the boat going again. When the wind got between 5 and 10 the pedals weren't needed - unless you just wanted to go faster.

It will be interesting to see how the rig does in higher winds. I suspect it could be a handful. Taking down the jib and reefing the main will probably be necessary inorder to keep sailng with higher winds - I'm guessing I would have to drop the jib if the winds got over ten and probalby have to reef the main over 15. I might also need the bigger finns and the bigger rudder.

One other modificatin I will definately try is the batten in the bottom of the sail. I have noticed that, when I was using the sail on my sea kayak, the sail wouldn't hold it's shape down wind - it just sort of folded over on itself. I used to stick my paddle out as if it were wisker pole. A batten in the bottom of the sail, as mentioned on this board, should do nicely when running with the wind.

The sea kayak may be the more sea worthy of the two rigs and more suitable for expeditions, but I wouldn't hesitate to take this out on some overnighters. It would hold enough gear to camp in reasonable comfort. The extra weight would likely have more affect on this boat than it would on the longer sea kayak, but it should work fine on shorter trips.

Much more testing to be done in the coming weeks.

Ted


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 Post subject: Jib size
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:38 am 
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Location: Boynton Beach
The jib is about 10 sq ft. You can see that the leech is pretty close to the length of the exposed mast. If you are thinking of making one, I'll get more precise measurments for you. I can't be sure how well the side stays work, except to say that I haven't broken the mast yet. Given that I stiffened the mast quite a bit, it's probably a good idea to add the support, especially now that I am using it on a plastic boat in addition to the glass over wood boat that I set it up for.

Ted


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:00 pm 
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Location: Tallahassee, FL
Hey TJ,
Welcome to the Hobie Forum, and congrats on a very fine job! I am a bit surprised, however, that the centerboard did not seem to be needed and that the fins sufficed for good tracking.

Glad to hear that the well nuts are still holding on your amas. Frankly, I could not believe that Hobie went with those for the Sidekicks. I purposely have never used well nuts for either of my ama/outrigger installations, because I have read for several years now that well nuts can and will pull out if sufficiently stressed. After all, there is only a swollen piece of rubber holding them inside the hull--no metal washers or nuts involved. As expected, we are starting to see reports from Sidekick users about these pulling out in a good wind and/or chop.

I have been looking into Klamptite rivets or expansion bolts/nuts (for hanging book shelves on a wall, for example), but these had to be stainless steel IMHO. Turns out they do make the latter in SS, but I believe they have to be special ordered, and probably in bulk--you won't find them in Lowe's or HD. But it is definitely something that Hobie needs to look into, since I fully expect all, or nearly all, the Sidekick well nut installations to fail over the first 1-2 years. This will be especially true in any kind of chop or boat wakes, and in moderate to gusty winds. Sorry--just my $.02 worth. I hope I'm wrong, but good luck anyway!

Here’s a little animation showing how the well nuts work. The black is the rubber insert, and the gray is the piece being attached with the metal screw. As the screw is being driven into the black threaded rubber insert, the insert is pulled up and compressed so that it expands to hold the gray piece in place.

Image

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:57 am 
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Location: Boynton Beach
Thanks for the suggestions.

I was thinking that, if the well nuts didn't hold that, instead of puting in a deck plate that would likely leak in that location, I would cut a hole in the middle of the deck, put in some backing plates or washers and stainless nuts and bolts, then take an overlaping piece of plastic/lexon and seal it back up using goop as an adhesive.

Have you found the blades from the pedal drive to be inadaquate as a center board? I haven't tested them in much wind and that's a whole different story than light winds. I kind of like having them available to assist the sails when needed, without having to change out a centerboard. Like I mentined, using the bigger sails (blades) should help as the wind picks up (won't know till I try it though).

Ted


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:08 am 
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Location: Tallahassee, FL
TJ,
Yep--I'm a strong believer in thru-bolting with SS machine screws and nuts along with some sort of firm backing plate (either aluminum, SS, or even a piece of teflon or plastic cutting board) for these kinds of installs. The problem arises when you don't have in-the-hull access available to attach the backing plate and nuts. I'm assuming that is the reason Hobie went with well nuts since they were probably the simplest (and cheapest) solution, but perhaps not the best solution to the problem. We shall see.

But, if you do have a problem you might want to try some Klamptite rivets before cutting any large holes iin your deck. These are only anodized aluminum (I believe) so they are not super strong. But in the little demo that I did in the pics below you will note that there are three expandable flanges or arms on the Klamptite that are metal, and might provide better resistance to pulling thru the screw hole under pressure than do the well nuts. On the left is an ordinary pop rivet--the Klampite (partially expanded) is on the right. These are sold at various kayak specialty shops like Captain Dick Enterprises.

Image

The above pic shows the degree of expansion with only the second pull of the rivet gun. Below is a second view (as if you were looking up from inside the hull) showing the complete three-pronged expansion of the rivet when fully installed. I don't know of anyone who has tried these on the Hobie Sidekick install after the well nuts have pulled out, so I can't provide any real world info regarding this (yet!).

Image

With regard to your second question about the fins (sails, blades, etc.) being adequate as a centerboard, try sailing without them, or with them folded up against the hull. You will quickly find that with them folded, or without them, you are side-slipping all over the place. So the stock, original fins are adequate, but not great as a centerboard. The newer ST and turbo fins I would expect to be much better in this regard, but I have yet to try them while sailing.

Although I like your wooden centerboard idea, you lose the advantage of being able to pedal a few strokes while you are coming about to get out of irons and back to sailing. Also, along the Gulf Coast where I am, the bays and inlets are often so shallow or littered wth oyster reefs that you would stand a good chance of running aground or getting high-centered (literally!) when you least expect it with a large centerboard. So--I am a big fan of using the Mirage Drive while sailing since it gives you much more control over the whole situation. Best of luck and keep us posted on your adventures (or misadventures :mrgreen:).
Dick

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Last edited by Apalach on Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:23 am 
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Location: sacramento california
Hi Ya T.J.

............ Kepnutz..


Last edited by kepnutz on Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:36 pm 
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TJ here is a way to make a leeboard from a windsurfer center board. It fits in the rod holder of the outback. I agree I haven't found it essential.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:17 pm 
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Hey duke,
Nice application and a good idea. Certainly worth a try to check its performance.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:50 am 
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Does anyone have any idea of the durability of the mast step. Have there been many mast step failures? Although I'm not sure exactly how it's attached at the base, it looks rather fragile to me.
Duke


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:45 am 
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Never heard of a mast step failure. Here is a pic I took inside the bow of my OB of the upper mast tube installation showing how it used to be a source of water leaking into the hull. Shortly thereafter, Hobie began furnishing small rubber caps for mast tube, and that seemed to solve the majority of leakage problems.

As I recall, the tube itself is a type of PVC or plastic of some sort. The base of the step also used to be anchored inside the hull with a single SS machine screw at the bottom. Don't know if they are still being constructed the same way--I haven't crawled back in there recently! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:52 am 
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Thanks Apalach, Wow you sure have some nice pics, you must be a professional photographer.
Duke


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:19 pm 
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Nope--a professional biologist. As such, I have been taking pics for many years all over the world on various marine biological and oceanographic expeditions. Now with the small waterproof digicams that you can take everywhere with you (even under the water), I have been recording all of my kayaking and fishing excursions as well. Lotsa fun! Just rinse them off under the tap after a trip in the salt and you're good to go. :D

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:24 pm 
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Location: Escondido
Aloha Dan had a failed mast step last year, but I don't remember the cause. I don't believe it was a parts failure, but some sort of accident. You could look up his posts to get more info.

The mast receiver tube is pretty tough plastic -- may have some nylon in it. It threads in through the deck and sleeves over a protrusion in the bottom.

Much more likely to have a problem with bent masts because of higher than recommended winds or added sail area, especially with the Sidekicks which limit heeling.


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