Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:44 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 523 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 35  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:46 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1958
Location: South Florida
Quote:
I am a sea kayaker, but in the summer of 2007, I began to think of buying an AI. As a sea kayaker, I loved to kayak-camp. So, a major concern was whether an AI could carry enough water and gear for a 7-8 day, totally self-supported, trip along coastal Everglades. There is no fresh water along this route, so the ability of an AI to carry 6-8 gal of water was a major concern. I did purchase a yellow AI in September, 2007. This thread now describes my experiences over the years.

Because of its length, I have made a Table of Contents. This Table is on P. 22, http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=315

and this thread starts now.


If I buy an AI, I intend to use it for 7-day-plus trips into the Everglades here in S FL. There is no potable water in the Everglades. You must carry all your water--7 gallons on a 7 day trip. (Of course, you can try to get by with less, like 6 gallons, but that is pushing it if anything goes wrong, like a raccoon puncturing a water container or 2 in search of goodies.)

So, the question is, have any of you done any lengthy trips in an AI? What was your experience? Can you carry 7-gal of water + gear + food?

Thanks for your help and advice.


Last edited by Chekika on Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:21 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 9
Back Packing in to remote areas is no different. There are many ways to purify water. A quality microfilter and drinking water tabs is the easiest and uses the less room. When hiking you are truly limited in what you carry, with the Hobie you can bring alot, capacity is 350# for the AI or adventure which are the same.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:13 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1958
Location: South Florida
Kemosuave,

There is a totally different problem regarding water in the Everglades. It is brackish/saltwater. Short of carrying a desalinization plant, it cannot be converted to drinking water. No, you must carry all your potable water for your trip. Also, I am aware of the AI 350# carrying capacity. If I were as disciplined as a backpacker, I am sure I could easily pack enough gear for a week trip. But I am not a backpacker, and I am over 60 so I enjoy some creature comforts like a chair, a table, a tent (keeps hoards of bugs at bay), a tarp to keep cancer-causing sun rays minimized, fishing gear, etc. So, I carry quite a bit of stuff that a backpacker in northern woods would not think of carrying. And, again, the water required is a significant problem. So, my question remains has anyone done a lengthy trip in their AI carrying all water, supplies, and gear? Also, how tight are the hatches? Do they leak? If they do, then everything has to be in very secure dry bags.

Keith


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:46 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 9
Keith,

The adventure is very capable, I'm 54 and canoe or kayak into remote areas hunting yearly. And I carry all the gear you descibe plus cold weather hunting gear and muzzle loader dont have a problem and stay as long as 2 weeks. I guess I just improvise, I have towed a small kayak for more gear when there are more than myself going. This works but is alot more work.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:19 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1958
Location: South Florida
Kemosuave,

Have you packed out a moose on your Adventure? No, no, just kidding. I do think that you and I, although we like "roughing" it in the wilderness, have different problems. (1) do you have an Adventure Island or a straight Adventure w/o sail? (2) Potable water--7 gal or more per Adventure Island per trip takes a bite out of the boat's capacity and limits time one can spend on a trip. (3) Some or a lot of my AI sailing will be in 2-3' chop or worse. With the boat loaded down, the deck is going to spend some time under 6-12" of water, or more, as it passes through waves. How much does the AI leak under those conditions?

Matt Miller, elsewhere on this forum, has said the front hatch will leak. There were at least 2 AI's in the WaterTribe 2007 Everglades Challenge 300-mile race along the SW and S coast of Florida. They encountered these conditions and worse. However, they don't have the water or food problem (they do have other worse problems), since they stop at a checkpoint every 36-48 hrs where they can pick up water and supplies.

Keith


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:51 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:03 pm
Posts: 9
Keith,

You will get some leaking where the rudder cables enter the hull. I was on lake Michigan 2 weeks ago in 4 to 6 foot swells with winds at 15 to 25 knots with my AI for 8 hrs and took on about a gallon of water. This is a very capable vessel. With the akas-amas on your capacity goes up even though its not stated. I would and aways do protect anything you don't want to get wet. Go to Kayakfishing.com and you'll find alot of info you need, The guys there are great and always ready to help.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:56 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:26 pm
Posts: 598
Location: Norman, OK
Sorry, but I have to join in, I do not have a AI but I took a pretty long sailing trip on my catamaran this spring break. Me and a friend had everything we needed for 7 days on my cat and kept it under 200 pounds. So you should have not problem being under 350, with only 1 guy.

_________________
Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:18 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1958
Location: South Florida
gree2056,

As kemosuave said, there is a lot of material on kayakfishing.com, specifically, http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/553103747

However, I am currious, again, in that 200# you and your friend carried, did that include about 7 gal water/person. That would be about 112# of water alone. I keep emphasizing the water because here in the Everglades National Park, you must carry all your water.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:42 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:41 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Sarasota, Fl
Your question about how capable an AI is for really unsupported multi-day trips is a good one. To me there are a couple of different ways to look at this. Let me first say that I'm no expert on Everglades National Park (ENP), but I have done weekend trips in ENP with both my new AI & in seakayaks. I've finished 3 WaterTribe races, 2 in seakayaks & this years race with my AI, so I do have a feel for what works for me to pack for a 4-6 day trip.

Without knowing more about you & your plans, I would first try to keep in mind that we are talking about doing a weeklong trip with a 16'SOT, would I think of doing this type of trip in say a Tarpon160? I would, but it would require alot of displine with packing & route planning. IMO, a 16' kayak is the shortest length I would go with for this type of trip (5-7 days TOTALLY self supported). You are right with the fact that although the WaterTribe races cover 300-320 miles in a week, most of the trip I was never more than 1-2 hours away from a fresh water source (might be somebody's boat dock) or a 1/2 day from food. When I used a 16.5' seakayak I was load to about 80%-85% capacity, with a little more experience, with a 18' seakayak I was maybe 70% loaded for a 6 day trip. My 18' seakayak was a real gear hauler & I felt I could have done a 14 day trip. With my AI I was loaded to about 80%-85% knowing that water & food was not really a big concern, but I did leave my small camp chair behind, which goes below deck for my weekend trips.

My feelings are that one can pack alot more in an AI than you might think. Assuming that you would be sailing as much as possible, you can pack alot on the rear tankwell. more than you would do with a seakayak. For my longer multiday trips I rig up tramps on both sides. It would not be a problem to think of carrying 2-3 gallons lashed down on the tramps, in fact could be used for a little bit of ballast on the windward side. I would carry smaller water bottles, but would try to carry most of the water in soft sided "water bags" that would lay flat against the bottom of the hull.
IMO, it would just be prudent kayaking to use drybags/dry boxes for as much as you can. Even food lables can be hard to read after being wet for 3-4 days. So yes, just expect your stuff to get wet even inside the hull.

My other thought is that multi-day trips in ENP are not to be taken lighty. A 3-4 day trip even with good weather & fair seas can wear me down while in ENP. Always in the back of my mind I'm trying to always think about what Plan B will be if ...... a raccoon gets my water, my GPS (and backup GPS) stop working, I step on an oyster shell, get a catfish barb in the hand, I lose my hat/sunglasses, get lost, get stuck on the wrong tide, have to portage thru 100yds of knee deep mud, and the worst ..... running out of medicinal rum ... I really hate when that happens.

Another thought to consider is heading North instead of South from Everglades City. The 10,000 Islands around Goodlands/Marco Island are much different that the area of Shark River Etc. Hard bottom is easier to find the chance to beach camp is easier and supplies are closer without giving up the sense of being on your own. Cape Ramono is one of my favorities.

One last thing I've found out. With a little bit of work (and an anchor) it is possible to sleep overnight on an AI, I've had to do that twice in ENP because of low tides did not make it possible (or at least a good option) to reach a campsite because of knee deep mud. As I said, just try to always think of Plan B & don't run out of rum. Good luck.

Johnny Molloy's Paddler's guide to ENP is a must read as is http://www.evergladesdiary.com/directory.html


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:55 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1958
Location: South Florida
ShallowMindedII,

That is great advice based on real experience. My AI plans are 7-8 day, unsupported trips in and through the Everglades. Over the past 12 years, I have done more than a dozen such trips in 18-19’ sea kayaks. These kayaks have tight hatch covers, and I have never had more than a few drops of water in my hatches. Of course, that has led to some sloppy use of dry bags, hence, my concern about significant hatch cover/hull leakage in the AI. Clearly, I will have to be much more careful in the AI.

I have done many of short trips in the Cape Romano area—truly a great kayaking destination. Several of us had an unbelievable fishing trip there a couple years ago.

Your use of tramps bridging the hull/amas, and using those tramps to carry water is an excellent idea. That begs the question: what did you use for the tramps netting?

From your posts elsewhere, I know you were in severe conditions during the last EC, have you experienced any equipment failures on the AI? Another post from a fellow in Hawaii says that he has had his AI out 6 times, apparently in 20 knot winds, and experienced 3 serious failures. What is your experience?

Again, thanks for the terrific hands-on advice. It is very helpful.

Keith


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:17 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:57 am
Posts: 222
Location: Phuket, Thailand
[quote="Chekika"]Kemosuave,

Short of carrying a desalinization plant, it cannot be converted to drinking water.

Hi Chekika,

WELL, why not carry your desalination plant with you specially if it weighs just 3 kilos and can provide 1 litre of drinking water for 15 minutes of pumping??? Dont know how much it costs mind you!!!

http://products.katadyn.com/brands-and- ... _35-1.html


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:55 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:47 pm
Posts: 94
Philip1el wrote:
Chekika wrote:
Kemosuave,

Short of carrying a desalinization plant, it cannot be converted to drinking water.

Hi Chekika,

WELL, why not carry your desalination plant with you specially if it weighs just 3 kilos and can provide 1 litre of drinking water for 15 minutes of pumping??? Dont know how much it costs mind you!!!

http://products.katadyn.com/brands-and- ... _35-1.html


That would be great addition to a liferaft at sea, but I am not sure I would want to pump one hour per day every day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:33 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 1958
Location: South Florida
I could perhaps pump 3/4 gal (45 minutes) a day to get by in a pinch, but the unit price for the Katadyn Survivor 35 is $1500--kind of takes your breath away.

Keith


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:24 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2243
Location: Maui, Hawaii
Chekika wrote:
I could perhaps pump 3/4 gal (45 minutes) a day to get by in a pinch, but the unit price for the Katadyn Survivor 35 is $1500--kind of takes your breath away.

Keith


A Google search shows the smaller one at a little over $600

Kakaking Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:36 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:09 am
Posts: 4
Location: Grand Junction, CO
Chekika wrote:
If I buy an AI, I intend to use it for 7-day-plus trips into the Everglades here in S FL. There is no potable water in the Everglades. You must carry all your water--7 gallons on a 7 day trip. (Of course, you can try to get by with less, like 6 gallons, but that is pushing it if anything goes wrong, like a raccoon puncturing a water container or 2 in search of goodies.)

So, the question is, have any of you done any lengthy trips in an AI? What was your experience? Can you carry 7-gal of water + gear + food?

Thanks for your help and advice.


Chekika, you have undoubtedly come up with a drinking water solution by now, but here is an idea. Recently my wife and I took our AIs into Moqui Canyon at Lake Powell for 5 days. We wanted to pack our water rather than filter it. We were able to stow 15 bottles (5 gallons) each under the cargo hold in the rear hull. That worked fine, but next time I would use plastic sewer pipe (3" to 4"), into which I would insert the bottles and strap on the ama arms just above the amas, or wherever. Our bottles are 10" tall and three bottles = a little more than a gallon. At this rate, two tubes of just over 8' would hold 7 gallons of water. With end caps, they would not slide out and could easily be dispensed by pushing with an oar, stick, or just removed and tilted. Coons cannot chew through the pipe. The same concept applies to LP gas bottles.

Hope this sparks some ideas.
Doug


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 523 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 35  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group