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 Post subject: proper sail trim
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:17 pm 
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Location: newark ca
I rented an AI and the winds were 8 to 10 knots. A Lido easily pasted me up when I was just sailing. Basicaly I set the sails so both tell tales were straight on the sail. Is there any other tricks with these.
Of course when I started to peddle I passed them up

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 Post subject: Lido
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:10 pm 
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A Lido will have an advantage in some conditions or points of sail, so not surprised. Yes, basically the tell tails would be parallel, but the one on back side of the sail flopping occasionally.

Also depends on the angle to the wind. The AI will be fastest pointed across the wind and slightly down wind or what we call a broad reach. The Lido or other similar sailboats will point higher into the wind.

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 Post subject: sail trim
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:12 pm 
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Location: newark ca
Hi Matt
Yes you right I was close hauled at the time, and going aganist the current. The Lido seemed to point a little better, but dinghy's do that well.
Down wind with just minor peddeling I was keeping up with 30+ foot keel boats with out spins
Thanks

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:21 am 
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I would be interested to see some polar diagrams for the Adventure Island. In my first two days sailing, it seemed that the thing really took off at around 50 degrees from the wind. As it picks up speed, the apparent wind increases causing it to go even faster. I think that in medium air, it might be fastest at this angle.

When it really got to gusting, I would agree that perhaps a slight downwind angle is probably the fastest.


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 Post subject: Polars
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:34 am
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Location: Miami
Maybe try putting one of those Garmin GPS units where you can download the tracks and speeds afterwards....they make them you wear on your wrist. I would be interested to know the top speed broad reaching...my guess would be 13-14 knots? Maybe 15? Personally I bet I have had it up to 11-12, but that was in around 22 knots and a lot of chop, and probably not very well tuned....still figuring it out for sure.

This Wed. will be the first time racing Turbo fins without the wheels in the bottom.........


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 Post subject: Wed. Nite Action
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:19 pm 
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Location: Miami
So this time we got the beach wheels out and took the AI out in light winds, probably 3-7. No turbo flippers as someone, who shall remain nameless, had them locked up in her car, but regular flippers worked great against a J-22, 420's, Laser, Open Bics and some Freedoms. It is amazing how good the thing goes while maintaing a nice, steady pedaling rhythm....nothing real strenous. The AI just smokes everything in that kind of wind.

Then the breeze glasses off, literally zero for a while, so I just rolled up the sail and pedaled straight into it on the way home. Then the breeze reappeared, so I unrolled the sail and sailed the last little bit, which of course is a lot less work. If you are in a light wind area, you are going to be very happy with how this boat performs. It is what you always wanted to do, but couldn't....

Some people are complaining now..."that is bs, you are just pedaling, that is not sailing." I disagree. I am sailing, I tack on shifts, I get good starts, I hit laylines, etc., I just pedal while I am doing it. What is wrong with that? I just maintain a nice steady stroke, I am not trying to outbike anybody...it would be funny to wear a bike helmet, though.

I believe the rule in racing should be that your sail cannot luff for more than a few seconds when going upwind...then you are pedaling into the wind. I think that this rule is more in the spirit of sailing and is enforceable by a jury or more importantly by your peers. Just let it happen with the pedaling. I think promoting this boat as a fit alternative to traditional sailing is not all that bad, personally. Geez, I got a lot of exercise in for sailing around in no wind and there is nothing wrong with that....maybe kids would find this product a lot more appealing than an Optimist and not so frustrating. If you want to open your mind some, I am beginning to think the whole pedaling thing is really OK from a racing perspective. Why not? The only people who care if you pedal are the people who don't have pedals....if everyone has pedals you may get beat by a more fit person, but so what? If it is windy, I doubt that will have anything to do with it, so much like windsurfing, there are different techniques for different conditions and some people will excel in some and not in others. I would be interested in others opinions.....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:41 pm 
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Location: Seal Beach California
have you tried racing the adventure with the drive removed and the plug in place yet


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 Post subject: More Wed. Nite
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:34 am
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Location: Miami
Big fleet wed. with light winds of 2-6. Turbo Flippers in, the AI was light years faster than everything else in the water. Nice steady rhythm, nothing radical, just easy pedaling, ..... this thing is so much faster than a regular sailboat. Beat the next finisher, a J-22 (maybe a j-24?) with spinnaker, by a leg.

Racing is all upwind, downwind...no reaching. Racing is so much more fun in those conditions because you can sail and keep moving, not stalling and schlogging like you might in the dead spots otherwise. After years of racing in light wind, it is really enjoyable, I have to admit. Martin took out my old longboard windsurfer with a ten meter sail and he was faster downwind, for sure, but we did not get to race upwind this time.

Last week Meredith raced it for the first time without beach wheels in the bottom and did about the same as I did the first time....beat the Freedoms, but not the Sonars and J's. She will start beating them in the next couple of races I suspect, once she gets a little more time.

It would not be hard to adapt a larger windsurfer sail to this thing.....


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 Post subject: Re: More Wed. Nite
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:17 am 
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Jim DeSilva wrote:
Big fleet wed. with light winds of 2-6. Turbo Flippers in, the AI was light years faster than everything else in the water. Nice steady rhythm, nothing radical, just easy pedaling, ..... this thing is so much faster than a regular sailboat. Beat the next finisher, a J-22 (maybe a j-24?) with spinnaker, by a leg.

Racing is all upwind, downwind...no reaching. Racing is so much more fun in those conditions because you can sail and keep moving, not stalling and schlogging like you might in the dead spots otherwise. After years of racing in light wind, it is really enjoyable, I have to admit. Martin took out my old longboard windsurfer with a ten meter sail and he was faster downwind, for sure, but we did not get to race upwind this time.

Last week Meredith raced it for the first time without beach wheels in the bottom and did about the same as I did the first time....beat the Freedoms, but not the Sonars and J's. She will start beating them in the next couple of races I suspect, once she gets a little more time.

It would not be hard to adapt a larger windsurfer sail to this thing.....


One thing I love about the AI is the pedals. If ever in a jam or need to pinch up when close hauled to make it over somehting, a few pedals and I am there.

However, I don't see the logic in saying that you "beat" other boats in a race while pedaling. I mean, pedaling is such a clear violation of the racing rules that I am surprised that it is up for discussion. It would be like saying that you beat another sailboat with the engine running.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:12 am
Posts: 419
Location: Florida
Pedaling may be a clear violation of racing rules but it is still a blast going by other sailiboats especially in light wind.

I "beat" a twin mast 37foot schooner out of the harbour and to the bridge by a nose. He had a mess of sails out for tours done locally, but we had light wind (12mph) and I was pump'n those turbos while sailing.

Island's mirage drive and its nimble handeling are quite an advantage.

Ya, I guess it is cheating, a little, but I'm not gonna stop "racing" any time soon.

My rationale also is that the Island uses no motorized propulsion, only wind and human power.

Yakaholic


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:51 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
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Location: Escondido
I think most of the AI crowd loves to race anything that moves. I took on one of those rental boats yesterday, whipped his butt! I know it's not really fair -- he only had 5 HP, but as I see it, a race is a race! 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:42 pm 
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Location: Florida
Speaking of racing. I fervently hope Hobie is working on stuff to increase the Island's speed.

If we could get a little lift from some hydrofoils the pedals would no longer be a factor.

The Island already turns quite a few heads and sailboats give us curious looks.

While flying past on hydrofoils I guarantee we would give 'em all whiplash!
8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:53 pm 
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Location: Norman, OK
The mast on the AI and the bars hold the amas out are not heavy enough for hydrofoils.

As for racing, if I was sailing my cat and you claimed that you beat me around a course I would have to contest that. To gain any respect when it comes to sailing you will have to do it without the fins.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:30 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:12 am
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Location: Florida
The aka braces can be easily unbolted and replaced with heavier ones along with beefed up arms and sail braces. Hobie engineers made the trifoiler. While a fullblown Island foiler is improbable some foils could be used to lift nose and reduce buring the ama, thus reducing all that wetted surface.

A case of Hobie cat sailors using the "respect" card or just pedal envy? :wink:

A catamaran has a mechanical advantage over the Island. It is called weight shifting. You are sitting on the windward side of the boat in order to use a much bigger sail. When you are flying a hull you have 1/2 of the boat in the water. Thats a pretty huge advantage.

The Island cockpit requires you stay in the center on the boat and the main hull, nearly all of the boat really, is never out of the water.

If a cat sailier wants to jump around the boat and hike out and use a mechanical weight advantage (leverage) and a big sail then its only fair Islands get to use a mechanical advantage also.

Or, put differenty; I'll give up my pedals when the Cat sailor sits in the middle sailing his cat. If the Cat owner claims his boat is designed to be sailed when sitting on only 1/2 of the boat, then I claim the Island was designed to be sailed with a mirage drive. :P

This is a fun and tounge in cheek type discussion; no need to get your harness in a wad :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:07 pm 
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Location: Norman, OK
Oh, I don't care about the fact that you are using the pedals. I just do not feel that it is really sailing...yes you are definently sailing when just using the sail, but it breaks every idea of sail racing.

Your arguement of not being able to sit anywhere but the middle of the boat really doesn't make sense, as you said our boats are made to be sailed while sitting out on one side of our boats. I am sure I have seen some of the AI sailors leaning pretty hard to one side.

We are not allowed to paddle during races which is all the peddling is, just in a more efficient design. So to be allowed to race with other sailboats you will have to not use the peddlas, There is no fair way to rate a boat that the driver can sail.

Like you said I am not trying to make this an angry thing, but I do like the discussion and would like to hear what others have to say.

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