Jib cleat upgrade?

Hey gang, so I'm thinking about my next upgrade... (okay, okay... after the double trap wires) and I'm wondering what I should replace these with... the main complaint here is that you have to pull *down* on the sheet to uncleat which is a pain; I know newer boats come with the "up to uncleat" ones which are much easier... so suggestions are welcome!


The original 1972 cleats:


Right now I'm thinking "F" on this page (from Murray's). Whatcha think?
http://www.murrays.com/archive/30.pdf

_________________
Warm regards,

Jim



"A little crazy but with big balls."

One quick thought to make these work easier...

See the clevis that the line comes back to at the car? There are 3 positions. Move it to the cam side and the angle of the jaws will be higher and it will be easier to uncleat. Otherwise, the easiest upgrade is the Hobie 1075 jib cars. Fits the stainless track and has a swivel cleat mounted on top. Closest thing to the current system there is for an older boat.

Hobie Parts Page 34

http://www.hobiecat.com/support/pdfs/34_35.pdf

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Thanks Matt, all good info. To clarify, do you mean I should move the clevis pin "right" one or two holes?

_________________
Warm regards,

Jim



"A little crazy but with big balls."

Yes move to the right in the picture. Closer to the jaws. Here is an annimated gif of the concept.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Cool demo Matt!

"THE TRICK" to uncleating the jib. This is a standard move and is a LOT easier demonstrated than it is described. I'm pretty sure Matt will have some great insight- he always does- that's why he's the moderator

Overview: you have to accomplish a short quick downward snap of the jib sheet in a decisive quick and purposeful move.
How to: Keep at least 4 feet of line out. The line will do most of the work actually, and work better when it gets wet and heavy.
Keep the line slack enough that it rests on the tramp but in a straight line from your hand to the cleat. Whip your hand up and down, timing the movement to create a sine-wave in the rope that will actually SNAP against the tramp at the cleat when the crest of the wave cycles from top (your upward move) to the bottom. If you are a fly-fisherman it is a movement similar to a roll-cast- essentially it is a quick flick of the wrist.

Sorry if that's not very well put. If I had Matt's talent I could post a little mpeg. But trust me, once you have the move down, it is very satisfying, cool and easy. As we often say- practice, practice, practice.

Happy Sails

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The fact that this windy world is largely covered in water obviously means that man was meant to sail.

That's it! Well said. Same with the main sheet system, but the jaws are higher. I think I tighten the line a bit right when the whip gets to the jaws. Not completely slack. Thinking about it now, I guess a loose start and whip and slight tensioning sends the whip down the line and excellerates and becomes more powerfull when it hits the jaws.

Like ya said... practice! Parctice on the beach with your crew before you head out.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Thanks guys! I can do "the whip" although I'm not 100% successful - maybe 85%. My crew (gf) is around 30% and improving, but I prefer the newer style cleats unless y'all can give me a good reason to keep the ones I have.

_________________
Warm regards,

Jim



"A little crazy but with big balls."

Money. That's about it.

The up-release is WAY easier for most crews. They are at a FIXED position and not wobbling around dependant on sheet tension.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I had my "crew" (my wife, the Admiral) read this over for her opinion. She pointed out that "what uncleats up must then cleat back down" so she wondered, besides "Money" what was the real advantage? Since I'm a cheap SOB (according to my wife, also the Chief Purser) I have never tried the up-cleats. My wife agrees with the success to failure ratio that Jim mentioned so, if it is "only" a matter of money, it may be something she would like to consider as an upgrade.

So- anyone with experience with the up-cleating model (Matt?) How do you cleat it back down? Is it a reverse whip?

_________________
The fact that this windy world is largely covered in water obviously means that man was meant to sail.

Cleating is, almost always, very easy either way.

To cleat, hold the line higher with down release cleats and lower with up release cleats, pull the line in through the jaws. The idea is that pulling the line through the cleat swings the jaws open and allows the line to get between the two. Release the tension on the sheet and it is cleated. If you cannot pull the line any tighter, it is difficult to get it to cleat, so ease the line out a bit then repeat the process. The line has to be moving through the jaws to get them to open.

Uncleating is harder with the down release simply because the line "whip" action hits the tramp before reaching the jaws, so the momentum of the whip is lost. The technique has to be good to make it work. The whip needs to be a shallow, quick whip, wave with a little tension on the line.

Up release can be difficult if the crew is traped out low and the jaws (swivel) is angled too high. Trap higher or bend the swivel down a bit. Usually with a hand extended high and a quick whip up, the line will release.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Okay I moved those clevis pins some but I couldn't really detect a difference. That said, the wind was probably 15-20 this afternoon and I had a blast with my gf going up and down the lake, flying a hull much of the time, trapping out, and flipping twice.

Still trying to figure out how to balance the traveler and mainsheet to get the best control over the windward hull's height-off-the-water.

_________________
Warm regards,

Jim



"A little crazy but with big balls."

I think a basic way of looking at it is...

If you cannot sheet the main without flying a hull... travel out a bit till the boat is only flying when fully sheeted.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

AHA- I found an unattended H16 with the "upgrade" cleats. I couldn't help myself but to try the cleating/uncleating. I like it. I think it is easy to cleat and certainly easier to uncleat. I never have a problem with the older system, BUT this seems to be a worthwhile upgrade- Thanks Matt for the information leading me to try it.

Jim, to add to the traveler and mainsheet positioning that Matt mentioned- remember your particular tack- that is the boats angle to the wind- will affect the amount of lift you have and primarily dictate where your traveler should be.
Wind at 90 deg to side is a Beam reach- travel about halfway out or closer, not centered but within about 10 inches of center is good.
Wind over stern corner going off-wind is a Broad reach- travel halfway out or more.
Wind over bow corner going up-wind is Cose Hauled- traveler centered as much as possible for upwind grab.

Sheet as necessary to attain a proper course with a good sail shape and retain the control you desire.

If you have too much lift and are not sailing a particular course, just having a Hobie day, sail closer to the wind and/or sheet and/or travel out to keep the boat down. The best hull flying seems to occur if the only control you take is the rudder and keep feathering up in the puffs and down in the lulls on your course. Any other "flyers" agree? I have done better than a mile with a hull in the air using only the rudder.

Do you need a pilots license to fly one of those things ?

_________________
The fact that this windy world is largely covered in water obviously means that man was meant to sail.

yo dose any one know how much it would coast for a new 2004 hobie 16 with everything ready to sail you know?

Just under $8,000.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)