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 Post subject: rudder pin
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:22 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:57 am
Posts: 222
Location: Phuket, Thailand
First day out in 4 1/2 months, saw Tony my erstwhile paddling partner out in his kayak and thought I would just give him a hard time and I was coming up on him like a train! New rudder worked a dream for about 3 minutes, I was going along at a fair old clip, nice breeze and all that, close hauled with the daggerboard down......BANG!...no steerage, rudder must have flipped up despite having the retaining screw down....but the rudder was fine still locked nicely down...it was the rudder pin it had pulled up through the transom. Well, I got home on the mirage drive thru some quite challenging seas and now I need some help from you guys!!!

First of all the pin looks to be polypropoleyne (xcuse spelling, but you know what i mean) and 8mm diameter, my inclination is to get one machined out of stainless and drop it through....but obviously theres a reason why the original was built out of poly in the first place (wear) In Phuket they have a material that looks similar its called superleyne but no 8 mm rods only 12 which means machining it down on a lathe...very tricky as its a flexible material and wont turn evenly.

What to do? Stainless or aluminium or superleyne. Superleyne will mill down but it aint perfect. What about superleyne drilled thru and then a narrow diameter steel rod introduced thru the core to give some stiffness so i dont get this problem again. Yes, i can contact my dealer, he's a good guy but subject to shipment constaraints and parts are going to be a pain.

Also it looks like i wont get the new pin thru unless I drop it down from the TOP of the rudder bracket and the rudder uphaul lines are in the way, if I have to remove the lines, how do I do it? My idea is to machine the superleyne rod so the top diameter is about 12mm (to keep it in place) for 8mm then go to 8mm for the remaining length (8.7cm) drill thru the pin where it exits the lower part of the bracket (leaving 2mm or so gap for a nylon washer) and stick a cotter pin thru.

Some tips PLEASE.

many Thanks.

Philip


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:50 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 42
Location: Dahlgren, VA
Recently had the same problem with my AI. In 20 knot winds and 2-3 foot waves I was having a great time, then the rudder hit something big floating just under the surface. Probably a tree limb. The bottom clips on the pin broke off. The temporary solution, to save an entire day's sailing, was to drill a small hole into the bottom (long axis) and insert a #8 screw and washer. This held the pin in place for the rest of the day.

I thought about a stainles steel pin, easily available at Lowes or the local farm & tractor supply ($1.39) but decided to go with nylon. It's a lot cheaper to replace the pin than the frame on the Twist & Stow.

After spending four hours on line unsuccessfully looking for a supplier with a reasonable price on nylon rod, I gave up and ordered the part from my dealer. I got a spare to keep in the boat but the two pins cost $7.00. Shipping cost was $6.00.

I'd like to know if Hobie thinks it's okay to use stainless steel in this applicaiton. It's cheaper and readily available.

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baysailor


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:02 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 42
Location: Dahlgren, VA
Phillip,

The Hobie pin is replaced from the top of the rudder and the head will just slip past the control cables with a little patience. If you are using plain nylon rod with washers and cotter pins it is easier to start the installation from the bottom and come up through the top washer than to try working the other way past the control cables. The washer can be anything that resists chafing. During my repair attempt I cut one out of a plastic motor oil container. This was a lot easier than trying to grind down a stainless steel washer to fit the recess on top of the frame.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:57 am
Posts: 222
Location: Phuket, Thailand
many thanks baysailer for promt reply. I agree, stainless is just going to wear thru the rudder mount and sleeve and create long term problems that will be much harderto fix in the future so i am moving real slow on this one. Yes, it was the little lugs at the base of the pin that pulled through, though i was unaware of any underwater impact. i am sure i would have heard a 'clunk', besides the shear bolt that locks the rudder would/should have done its thing and snapped

My main problem with introducing the pin from the underside is how to get the cotter pin through the top of the rudder pin once its up in the rudder housing (rudder mount) seems to me what your suggesting is to push the pin all the way through the sleeve and up thru the housing until it protrudes beyond the rudder lifting lines, secure the cotter pin then pull it back thru trying to avoid snagging the lines (which are awfully taut).

I have to say I found some stainless rod that was 7mm in diameter, it slid through just beautifuly and the tension in the rudder lines kept it snug and rattle free...it was SO TEMPTING, but then I got to thinking that in a craft so carefully put together a nylon pin wasnt going to be a cost cutting exercise, its nylon for a purpose and as you so rightly say the purpose is to prevent us having to buy a whole new rudder assembly.

What actualy rotates? is it the pin in the sleeve or just the rudder assembly. If it were just the plastic rudder housing hinging on a stainless pin the holes thru which the pin passes would soon wear and enlarge.

I will, of course contact the dealer in Bangkok, a container is due in soon from Hobie Australia, whether or not there are some spare rudder pins aboard remains to be seen. As far as i know there are only 2 AI's in Thailand, both on Phuket!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:29 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:12 am
Posts: 428
Location: Florida
Drill a hole in the underside of the rear hatch lid to keep your extra rudder pin handy.

There is one style of pin that requires no cotter pin at top or bottom; the top of the pin has a larger head to it. I found cutting the top head to a "D" shape will allow easier insertion past those pesky rudder lines. No T&S lines need be removed.
(pictured is a used rudder pin as the spare). You do need to turn the rudder full to one side also.
Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:57 am
Posts: 222
Location: Phuket, Thailand
Yakacholic....Great idea for securing the spare pin, how did you drill the hole? looks like theres hardly any room to get the drill bit in

My dealer has offered to get the replacement pins for me express shipped from australia so I think i will wait on delivery. If I have trouble inserting the pin I will follow your advice and cut the top part into a D shape.

Many Thanks for your help.


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 Post subject: Rudder Pin
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:09 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:38 pm
Posts: 8
My boat was delievered with a broken pin. I have since ordered a spare. I thought of a metal pin, but I am sure long term that will cause a wear issue that will be a real problem. Great Idea on where to store the spare. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Spares
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:04 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9226
Location: Oceanside, California
Spare pins in the hatch.

We have gone, or will soon, to the spare in the hatch lid as shown for all production.

Broken pins in new boats are related to shipping damage or how dealers stock the boats. We store all inventory with rudders up in our warehouse.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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