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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:43 pm 
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Location: Rio Vista, CA
So Matt, anytime soon on those '07 kits?

And while I'm asking: Anytime soon on the AI tie-down kits?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:11 pm 
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Location: Florida
Rio Dan wrote:
So Matt, anytime soon on those '07 kits?

And while I'm asking: Anytime soon on the AI tie-down kits?


Pardon my ignorance - But what is an AI tie-down kit?

Between new mast cups, new up/down rudder lines, new pedal designs - <gasp>

It is hard to keep up. Hobie the Cadillac of Kayaks always with new stuff and improvements - I love it!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:59 pm 
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Location: Rio Vista, CA
Yakaholic wrote:

Pardon my ignorance - But what is an AI tie-down kit?


72020420 TIE DOWN SET (1 boat) - ADVENTURE ISLAND

Page 17 of the '07/'08 catalog.

I ordered two sets when I ordered my trailer a few months ago.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:04 pm 
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Location: Rio Vista, CA
Picked up my new up/down kits today at Inland Sailing (thanks Mel :wink: )

Installed one kit on my wife's boat tonight. Took me about 2 hours taking my time and following the instructions step by step. Learned a few things I'll do differently on my boat.

Like:
1) Not wasting so much time carefully untieing the old lines. Snip them with a pair of dikes and rip'em out.
2) Feed the new scrunchie lines through the turning blocks, through the new holes in the map pockets, through the short rigid tubes, THEN push the tubes into the new holes. The instuctions tell you to install the tubes first and then feed the lines through them. I'm sure this works if you are flexable enough to crawl out of your own ... BUTT it will much easier the way I describe.
3) Tie the knot in the aft end of the scrunchie lines before you feed them through the hull.

The next one should take me an hour tops.

One more thing: The instructions speak of washers for the cam cleat but my kits don't include them. Fortunately I have a bunch of SS #12 flat washers in my boat parts box. If your kits don't come with them I'd recommend getting your own and installing them under the cleat nuts. There is a bending force on the cleat hardware that may lead to cracking of the hull at the screw holes with time without any washers to reinforce them.

Works great! Big improvement over the lame handle.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:12 am 
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Location: Rio Vista, CA
O.k., I did the second boat today and I'd like to revise my suggestions slightly.

The really difficult part is feeding the new lines through the new holes in the map pockets. What I did on the second boat was that, rather than use the two short tubes Hobie supplies with the kit, I took the old rigid tubes that were removed from the stern and shorted them to about 18" and installed them in the new map pocket holes. I used a razor knife to cut the tubes as it leaves a very clean cut end. Now you can easily reach the tube ends through the forward hatch opening. From there it is very easy to feed the new line up the tube to cockpit. Just make sure the opening in the tube at the map pocket is not too small for the line to go through. If you use a hammer to tap the tube in it tends to smash down the end of the tube. This is easily corrected with a small drill bit turned by your fingers.

The other suggestion is at the other end of the boat. In steps 10 & 11 you are told to feed the up and down control lines through the holes in the rudder and tie a knot in them to keep them from slipping out. A good idea, yes. But in step 13 you are told to tie loops in the ends of those same control lines. So why not just tie the loops in steps 10 and 11 and save yourself the time and hassle of untieing two (itty bitty, hard to untie) knots only to re-tie them.

Please note: I am not an employee of Hobie. These are just suggestions from some guy with a couple of boats. No warranties expressed or implied. Any suggestions you of mine you follow may void your warranty, cause the wheels to fall off your car, or make your dog sick. :wink:

Let me say it again. This is an excellent modification Hobie has instituted for the AI. I can't wait to get out on the water and see how they work in action.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:59 pm 
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
The hardest part for me was holding the nuts for the cleat.
One tip, I used a 11/32 or 9mm socket on the nuts, held with a short fat screwdriver where the ratchet goes.

Kayaking Bob


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:39 pm 
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Location: Venice, Florida
:D You da Man RioDan! I have reading comprehension problems trying to understand how to do these mods. Thanks for figuring out what Hobie meant to say and taking the time to post your lessons learned.

Thanks,

_________________
Polecat
------------------
Hobie AI & WS Tempest 180 Pro
SW Gulf Coast: Sarasota to Keys

I'm not completely useless. I can always serve as a bad example.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:11 pm 
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Location: Long Island, New York
Rio Dan and reconlon -

I got the update kit today. Believe me, I'll use your tips. Thanks for the info. Probably won't be able to get to it for a few days, but I'll let you know how it does. What's the record time so far: one hour with no hitches?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:58 pm 
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Location: South Florida
I'm like Rio Dan--I could do the next one in half the time (but my first one has taken about 4 hrs.)

Yes, the tips of Rio Dan were helpful. Polecat is right, the directions need much improvement. Step 25 says to take the longer line assembly (they are different length) and "...feed it up through the bottom and around the pulley." It does not specify the left or right pulley. When I hooked these lines up in the stern, the right line (my shorter one) just barely reached the connection. Rio Dan is right, however, that before running the lines the length of the boat, first tie the knot a couple inches from the end. I could not have followed the directions (Step 28 ) and tied the knot after the lines had been pushed through (right line was too short to reach and tie knot.) Plus, I could not tie the short right line 4" from the end because it would have made the line too short--I tied it about 2" from the end. [Note: After thinking about this on a camping trip over the weekend, it is clear that the longer line assembly should be attached to the right side pulley--that side has the longer run.]

When you take the rudder apart (Step 8 ), it is necessary to unthread (unscrew) the bolt passing through the center of the rudder housing. But you cannot do that w/o unscrewing and pulling out the rudder left/right line (that is sort of hinted at in Step 4, but not clear.) No instruction tells you that left/right line has to be reconnected, but it obviously does. I hooked a wire onto it to pull it through the bolt and reconnect with the screw. The line is shown clearly in Step 4. VERY IMPORTANT: IN STEP 8, WHEN TAKING THE RUDDER HOUSING APART AND PULLING THE LARGE BOLT, DO NOT LOSE THE PLASTIC WASHER INSIDE THE HOUSING. IT IS ON THE LARGE BOLT WHICH YOU PULL OUT OF THE HOUSING. This washer separates the 2 parts of the housing. It is necessary for the proper operation of the twist-n-stow action of the rudder. The washer is replaced in Step 12.

The new pulleys bolt on the INSIDE of the hull. I'm a bit (a lot) careless about reading directions the first time, and the picture shows the left pulley on the outside of the kayak, so, of course, I bolted it on the outside. Common sense (and the instructions) says it goes on the inside, but that is why it took me 4 hrs.

I believe one place I have improved on everybody's instruction is in feeding the lines from the pulleys out of the hull through the hole near the map pockets (Step #25). As Rio Dan says, doing as the instructions suggest is near impossible. (Maybe impossible for normal people.) There is an easy way. DO NOT INSERT THE SHORT, RIGID TUBES IN THE DRILLED HOLES NEAR THE MAP POCKETS (Step 17, 20). Rather, after drilling the 5/16" holes near each map pocket (Step 16 and 20), run a 4' wire into the hole back to the line coming through the pulley. Attach the line to the wire with electrical tape (reach in the front hatch to do this). Then, simply pull the line out through the hole with the wire. Free the line from the wire, slip the SHORT, RIGID TUBES over the line, insert the tubes into the hole (you need a small hammer to do this.) Now follow the directions to attach the cleat and T-handles (step 26). Like others here, my parts did not include washers. I picked up some stainless steel fender washers to use when attaching the cleat.

Reconlon is right. The nuts w/ washers are difficult to thread onto the cleat screws. Again, it is an anatomical problem: your arms do not have enough joints, and they are too big to reach into those tight places. Use your fingers as best you can to get the nuts started onto the screws, then use a 11/32 socket on a ratchet or 5" driver w/ a socket connection to hold the nut while you use a Philips screwdriver on the outside to thread the screw into the nut.

I also used the wire method to run the lines past the middle hatch to the stern. Remember, before passing those lines to the stern, tie a knot about 2" from the end of the short line, and 3-4" for the longer line.

When the lines are installed, they will be exposed in the back hatch. However, on the inside edge of the hatch frame, there is a padeye which acts as a hook for the lines to remove them from sight.
Image
Image

There are some numbering errors in the instructions. For example, in my instructions in Step 25 it says "step 9 and 12." It should be "step 17 and 20."

It may be optimistic, but perhaps Hobie is working on the instructions as we speak, so some of these steps and errors may change and be corrected. Unfortunately, we have paid about $70 for an upgrade to correct a poor design, then we have to install it, and then Hobie sends out instructions with errors and omissions. I feel like I am a beta tester, but paying to do it. Hobie, it should not be that way.

Hopefully the new up/down lines are better thought out and executed than the instructions.


Last edited by Chekika on Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:37 am, edited 7 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:07 am 
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Location: Long Island, New York
Good job, Chekika. Thank God I have all this advice before I try it. It's snowing on LI anyway, so I'll have to wait, but I've printed all this stuff out to place with the instructions when I do it.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:30 pm 
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Location: Redmond, Wa.
Rio Dan,

Thanks for your tips on the rudder line install. Reusing the rear tubes and cutting them to 18" simply brilliant. :!: Also, using a drill bit to carve out the ends of the tubes was real time saver. I did not use a hammer to set them, but still needed to carve them out to thread the new lines.

I picked up my kits from NWHobiecats on Friday and we were throwing a party for 70 on Saturday night so I had to wait until today to do the install. I woke up this morning and it was snowing and the heater is on the fritz in my shop so I had to overcome and adapt.

Image

My family room makes a great workshop... The kitchens right there to keep nourishment handy, and it was toasty warm. Thank God for an understanding wife.

I got the first one done in about an hour twenty and the second in under on hour. Thanks again for the tips. Definitely saved me some time and frustration.

NorskBoy


Last edited by NorskBoy on Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:09 pm 
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Location: Long Island, New York
Now that's what I call an understanding wife.


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 Post subject: rudder cables
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:00 am
Posts: 69
Location: Jupiter Florida
Hi Matt.... can you shoot me a picture of where the port side rudder line ties into the rudder. When I upgraded my twist in stow, my port side rudder line was tied into the other lines so I had to untie it. I am sure that it should have been connected to one of the screws. If you've got a picture how about shooting the one?
Thanks
kayakingglenn


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 Post subject: Twist-N-Stow manual.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:32 pm 
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Posts: 8964
Location: Oceanside, California
Twist-N-Stow manual:

http://www.hobiecat.com/support/pdfs/Tw ... Manual.pdf

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:48 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Thanks all for the hints. I upgraded an 07 AI on the weekend and can vouch for all the above. :)

Slight variation on Rio Dan's and Chekika's excellent ideas for threading the lines from the pulleys back through the drilled holes near the mesh pockets.
I used the longer of the original removed tubes to act as a guide for the lines. Poke the tube through the drilled hole and guide it towards the pulley. Then from the front hatch feed the line through the tube. You can see the line through the translucent tube and when it exits the drilled hole pull the tube out, leaving the line in place. Then thread the short kit supplied tube over the line. I tapped this short tube into the hole using a small ring spanner to protect the tube end from the hammer blows.
I also used this longer tube to reach the bungeed line at the centre hatch from the rear hatch. Tape the line to the tube and pull back through the rear hatch. It makes it easier if you tie the knot while the line is at the centre hatch.


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