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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:10 pm 
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Location: Clear Lake Iowa
Well, I am going to sail the bastard that way for Yacht Club races and she how she does.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:03 pm 
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Location: Clinton Lake Kansas
We're at a regatta and you're racing the 20 solo, we going to put mooring buoys off the beach for the solo guys? If your other solo buddies do get your beach wheels to you what then? Eventually we're all going to get tired of helping you soloists drag your 420 pound boats out of the lake.

If you really want to sail a two up boat solo, the boat's the 18. Then you can actually come roaring in, drive it halfway up the beach, hop off, pound your chest and demand a beer, and someone may even hand you one. There are people successfully racing the 18 solo (or "stealth" as the Lake Perry guys call it).

All that said, a good thread because it addresses an urgent issue. We've reached critical mass with the available Hobie classes. We're racing a member of the dead boat society. I say we hang on as long as we can. While you and I aren't getting any younger (i.e. crew's leaving home) Karl and others have come in to the Hobie racing mix. What boats do they sail (long term) if they want to move beyond the 16? The two EU boats available are less than $2K apart in price and the most expensive of those two is today $19K :shock: :oops: ouch

May as well join up with another dead boat, if we don't have crew, and race H17's.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:39 pm 
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Location: Northfield Minnesota
I'd rake that mast waaaaaay forward. That might help with tacking and some of the weather helm you're going to get. That's going to be one freakishly fast ride coming back down hill.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:31 am 
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Location: Fresno, CA
I hate to say it, but you guys are making a bigger deal out of this than it is. We had two single handed sailors at the H20 NAs in Alameda last year. Granted, they are big guys (250 pound range) but they did fine with the boat normally rigged - jib and all. I remember one of the guys had his "crew" lashed to the hiking straps at the front cross bar, two 25 pound weights he called dumb and dumber. The class minimum is 295 pounds, so that would put him at 245 pounds. Neither of single handers finished last; they were 15th and 21st with solid 10 to 20 kt winds all week. Check out the results at: http://www.hobienorthamericans.com/results.html

I have also seen the H20 sailed single hand without a jib for just playing around with great results. I wouldn't rake the mast forward for single handing, if anything I would rake it back.

Jason Moore
H20 992


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:31 am 
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Location: Clear Lake Iowa
Thats my whole question! Bommersbach swears sailing that boat with no jib kills the rudders and castings, and I am looking for an idea of what can be done to combat that. I have this huge fast boat and sometimes don't have crew and wanted to know if a 190lb guy can sail it without the jib and not kill the sailor or boat.
Thanks Jason for the advice, but can you explain why back instead of forward AND do you feel that IF we were to set this up like a 17, would we need different forestays and bridles to allow for more rake or should we just add adjusters up top?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:35 am 
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Location: Clinton Lake Kansas
Jason,

We raced with Mr. Probst in the '05 NAC's, hence my comment
Quote:
I got it, eat enough pizza to be above 245 pounds so you can carry less than the 50 pounds to make minimum class weight. If Tony can do it so can you!
What I fail to understand is why any one would want to try it at less than 295 pounds, unless for "playing around". I think the Aussie rule of 310 (or somewhere thereabouts) minimum makes more sense for this boat.

Agreed on the rake. For me, at 175, I can envision custom rigging and a low profile set of blocks, ala H16. I'd bet it would still be like riding a mustang on the DW leg. Yeah, doing the wild thing, like it's an A Class :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:11 am 
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I would be like an A class wouldn't it? Just bigger.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:56 am 
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Location: Northfield Minnesota
Why would you want it raked back? I don't see the reason.

Won't it point better tipped forward? You shouldn't have to worry too much about a pitchpoling being 100lbs under weight it should accelerate like crazy going down wind and get out of it's own way before you get into trouble.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:59 am 
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Location: Denver, Colorado
xanderwess wrote:
Thats my whole question! Bommersbach swears sailing that boat with no jib kills the rudders and castings, and I am looking for an idea of what can be done to combat that.


Confucius says: "Girl who wear falsies makes mountains out of molehills"

I think you are doing the same thing here.
IF the rudders/heads were that dammned fragile they would be breaking all the damn time every time the wind came up over a certain velocity.
How many OTHER things break more frequently?
Quite honestly, if you are single handing @ 250# without the jib, you CANNOT load the rudders up as much as you would with 295# THINK about it guys. less weight, less load, not as much weight holding the boat flat, less load.
You do CHANGE the center of effort but the rudders and the rudder heads are not that poorly engineered or fragile. :::Sigh:::
PB is pissin' in your ear and trying to convince you it's raining.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:34 am 
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Location: Clear Lake Iowa
That is the kind of logic I am looking for. Just needed something to talk about while its 15 degrees and windy out.
I am also looking to get the (censored) out of the (censored) house and go sailing or play golf or tennis or run naked though the streets. The (censored) winter is pissing me off and I am getting sick to (censored) death of it. Pardon my french.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:43 am 
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Location: Denver, Colorado
xanderwess wrote:
Pardon my french.


When the french curse, do you suppose they say.......
"Pardon my english" ?????

Its a mystery of thought, and think about it!

Chris,

I'm %$&*$@# sick of shovelling the &%$#@ snow too <Grin>

Stephen


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:04 pm 
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Location: Jersey Shore
It's probably not necessary to rake the mast excessively, but I remember when the 20 was fairly new and guys were experimenting with them around here, they would take a shroud adjuster and connect it to the forestay up at the hounds. This would allow for increased mast rake without running out of room on the forestay turnbuckle.

sm


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:23 pm 
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Location: Clinton Lake Kansas
Karl Brogger wrote:
Why would you want it raked back? I don't see the reason.

Won't it point better tipped forward? You shouldn't have to worry too much about a pitchpoling being 100lbs under weight it should accelerate like crazy going down wind and get out of it's own way before you get into trouble.
The 20 makes VMG upwind when footing off slightly. In 9 knots of wind you're double trapped. As sm stated everybody's added a 7 hole adjuster for rake, to calm the boat down. An upright mast gives you not necessarily a better pointing angle, but it does give you more power, and this boat doesn't need any more power. Even with say 330 pounds of crew, as the wind builds, you're very early in to depowering. Reduce your crew weight by 100 pounds and you'll never keep the boat flat. Even raked back they way everybody currently runs them, the 20 takes off like a rocket ship downwind, again, it needs no help, especially with reduced crew weight. I think everybody has experienced going so freaking fast the rudders lost flow for a second or two, running downhill on a windy day.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
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Location: Detroit, MI
xanderwess wrote:
. . . or run naked though the streets.


Thanks for giving me a mental image I will never, ever be able to erase from my brain.

Except after years of therapy.

I'll make sure I send you the bill.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:54 pm 
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Location: Clear Lake Iowa
Hmmm. Not very nice.


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