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 Post subject: AKA Hinge Wear
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:39 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Venice, Florida
Bought my AI July 2007 and love it, but...the holes for the hinge pins in both the crossbars and AKA arms are worn (ovaled out) allowing the AMAs to bounce excessively. This needs to be fixed before it causes a bigger problem.

What's the fix? Is this a Warranty Issue? Has this been addressed before? Is there a need for a "Bluewater Upgrade" to handle heavier weather and higher seas? :roll: Let me know whatcha think.

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Polecat
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Hobie AI & WS Tempest 180 Pro
SW Gulf Coast: Sarasota to Keys

I'm not completely useless. I can always serve as a bad example.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:27 pm 
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Location: Florida
Yup, Polecat look at this link.

http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=8501

When new the frame hinges have very little up/down play. With use and wear the play increases. Like any part that gets worn, the more play that exists the faster that wear accelerates.

The up/down travel of the arm to the pin only pounds out & wallows the hinge holes if nothing is done to reduce the travel up and down.

The above link has some pics and descriptions of a way to help stop all the rattle and minimize the up/down play. It fact even if your akas are brand new, adding a little padding will extend their life and minimize their wear.

I have 2 Islands both purchased in fall/winter of 2006 and know exactly where you are coming from.

I don't believe worn frame hinges would be dangerous - but they are awfully noisy in chop and the boat may heel slighty more that if the hings and frames were new.

Outside of padding the only engineering fix is to have a replacable bushing at the hinge point. The Stainless Steel pin wears very little - but the aluminum parts get bigger holes over time.

Matt allowed me to submit one complete set of old frames and the front & rear xbar for "warranty replacement / inspection" (essentially all the metal) for only one of the Islands, but not for the second Island.

Yakaholic


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 Post subject: AKA Hinge Wear
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 8:23 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:39 pm
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Location: Venice, Florida
Thanks Yak.

I expected the "aluminum" connection to wear--but not this quickly. I noticed the extra play beginning in Feb, and of course, it has steadilly gotten worse.

Now that the problem is here, I realize the constant up/down banging force on the x-bar hinges transfers that same stress to the brackets holding the x-bars to the hull. How long will it be before this stress fractures the hull around those brackets and fails to hold down the x-bars? I THINK HOBIE MUST ADDRESS THIS!!!

I'll be taking my boat to my dealer and will expect the x-bars and akas to be replaced under warranty (They know I love my boat and take care of it) I'm sure Hobie wants to know about these problems so they can fix them and continue to build the best boats for the money and continue to deserve our loyalty and the love and praise we give their boats.

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Polecat
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Hobie AI & WS Tempest 180 Pro
SW Gulf Coast: Sarasota to Keys

I'm not completely useless. I can always serve as a bad example.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
Some amount of play has been expected. With several years of heavy use on these boats now, we have yet to have an actual "problem" with one do to the looser fit. I do not think replacement is likely. Possibly a slightly larger pin. or a pad as others have suggested.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:12 am
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Location: Florida
Correct. Aka frame wear has never prevented use of the boat nor caused any real issue; other than the rattle - and that only in chop.

Padding is easy, cheap and very effective.

Looks like:

Image


http://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Duty-Felt-L ... B000A3C7U8


Just stick them to the flat face on the aka arm (where the 2 holes are)

Image

You can trim the round pad into a rectangle or buy the self-ad. padding in small sheets. If after attaching the pad you can't pin the arm on - the padding is slightly too thick. Just compress the felt it a little with a few ginger taps of a hammer on the felt - either before or after applying.

Replace worn padding with new as needed - about every 10 trips for me YMMV.

I believe every aka arm has these 2 small holes - as seen in the pic above. A real clever Hobie engineer could thread/tap those 2 holes - so that a rubber pad could be screwed/bolted to the face of the aka arm. I'm thinking a rubber bumper of the same durability and 'hardness' as auto tires or rubber auto shock absorber bushing.

The rubber part could be molded to perfectly fit the aka arm face and have a concave top where it contacts the x bar hinge. It would not interfere with any current function of the aka arm (attach, fold ect.) Plus, it could be replaced if worn. Plus it could be retrofitted to all existing boats via a tap kit, a self tapping bolt, or maybe a super adhesive for the rubber pad.

-----------

The best advice is pin on one aka arm to the boat without any ama and just move it up and down to check play.

If you have this (see movie):

http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n212 ... I_2865.flv

The padding will remove nearly all that and the up/down travel & rattle will be eliminated.

I would go so far as to suggest that even new akas get 'padded' to keep them newer longer. You wouldn't drive your car without shocks would you?

Unless something better comes along - this works!

Yakaholic


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:42 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:47 pm
Posts: 94
I have something similar to those pads in the RV for the cabinets, but I think they are taller and made of rubber. I am going to give them a try. They are available at Home Depot.


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 Post subject: AKA Hinge Wear
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:39 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Venice, Florida
Quote:
mmiller Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some amount of play has been expected. With several years of heavy use on these boats now, we have yet to have an actual "problem" with one do to the looser fit. I do not think replacement is likely. Possibly a slightly larger pin. or a pad as others have suggested.

Matt:
1. Wear “WASâ€

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Polecat
------------------
Hobie AI & WS Tempest 180 Pro
SW Gulf Coast: Sarasota to Keys

I'm not completely useless. I can always serve as a bad example.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9329
Location: Oceanside, California
Certainly we are keeping an eye on this.

We had tested the boats for a yaer or more before they hit the market and now they have been out for a couple years, so we do have some good history on it.

The pin has to start out a bit loose just so it can be inserted and removed. Aluminum also seems to wear-harden, so this doesn't seem to get looser and looser. I seems to stabilize.

No production solution / change has yet been found that makes sense.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:12 am
Posts: 433
Location: Florida
I have really put some mileage & heavy use on my Island.
So I have no complaints. Sailed 40 miles in a single outing a few days ago and managed an average speed of 5.6mph & a top speed of 10.5mph (GPS)

On aka wear. Be careful not to get sand in the aka hinge while assembling. If you tip kayak on the side or lay the aka in the sand you need to wash off the sand before assembling. It seems like common sense, but if your in a hurry stuff like that gets overlooked.

One often sees a metal-rubber-metal connection on automotive parts like motor mounts and shock tower bushings. I think what the padding accomplishes is cushion the shock of metal to metal connection. It also serves to distribute some of the pressure off the center pin and onto the aka frame face where the padding sits. With padding, the pin & holes no longer take the brunt of the up/down action of the arm.

I love my Island & I know 3 local fellows, 1 with a Hobie Wave, another with a Hobie Bravo, and one who builds his own small sail boats. The Wave owner got to try my Island - he now wants one :lol: . The Bravo owner will get a try soon - but he is already keenly interested in the Island. The boat builder is extremely impressed with my Island and never fails to say so evey time I see him at the boat ramp. He took numerous photos :wink:

I have come to call my Adventure Island my "personal sailboat". Meaning, one person can easily set it up and enjoy it with a minimum of fuss.

Yakaholic


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 5:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2246
Location: Maui, Hawaii
One of my two AI's has extensive aka wear and rattled when sailed (the AI with the least miles on it!). I was very concerned, but after talking to Hobie, I tried gluing pieces of indoor/outdoor carpet on the flat part of the aka joint and other than it being hard to assemble the first couple of times, it's like new again. Also doesn't seem to be wearing and further, and has been on for over a year.

Kayaking Bob


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