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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:16 pm 
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Thanks Jim for all your effort and detail in documenting the process. I'm looking forward to seeing your installed traveller now!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:45 am 
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Norm742 wrote:
Thanks Jim for all your effort and detail in documenting the process. I'm looking forward to seeing your installed traveller now!
Yeah, me too, I think the traveller will need to wait. At least I am traveller ready!

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2007 Hobie Wave


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:42 pm 
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Hey Jim...

How's the tension on the tramp? Looks a little slack in the photos?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:01 am 
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zzcoreyzz wrote:
Hey Jim...

How's the tension on the tramp? Looks a little slack in the photos?
Yup, the 3/16" line I used is not a 'low stretch' variety, just generic line I had lying around. I definitely need to upgrade that lacing. As soon as I had it all tensioned, it began to sag due to line stretch. Not too mention, there was some stuff on the tramp at the time (backrests, etc.).

As soon as I get some new lacing on there, I will take another pic.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:50 am 
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That's a good job there, wanna.

Thanks again to Brad for the original pics and advice.

**************

About the traveler:

No one asked but I snapped a pic of my rivet gun mods that I used to get the gun down into the track so that the gun would not damage the track while popping the rivet.

Click images to see better.

*pics deleted*

The tip of the rivet gun is reduced by filing. After drilling a 3/16" hole in it, the small piece of 10 gauge (cut from that big piece) was used as a spacer to keep the gun well above the track. Here's finish:

EDIT:

Sorry, 10 gauge metal is simply 1/8" thick scrap metal


Last edited by JJ on Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:02 pm 
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Location: Alberta, CAN
Thanks JJ... that looks pretty professional looking rivet!

As a total summary can anyone sum up the whole installation process so we can all agree on what's the best way of doing it... I'm stil a bit confused or unsure abour some parts of it... e.g. I know there was a post earlier here about the size of the drill bit being wrong compared to the size of the screws or rivets, etc..

Also JJ can you post a whole picture of what a rivet gun looks like? Is there no model that can be used without having to modify it? (For those of us who may have to buy one anyway?)

Also JJ, what do you exactly mean by "...the small piece of 10 gauge (cut from that big piece) was used as a spacer..." a small piece of what? AND, which part of the tip of the rivet gun is reduced by filing...? Don't we actually want a longer tip?

BTW, is there an official instruction manual by Hobie Cat somewhere?

Thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:17 pm 
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@ DHT

If there's a simpler way to do it, I'm all ears. Yes, I wanted a longer tip but couldn't find one...

The bit sizes were listed on the instructions that came with the kit. I had no problem making them work. (3/16" or #12 on rivets and 1/8" or #29 for screws)

However, I did check bit sizes against the rivet shaft size with one of those plastic hole measuring thingees that you get in the bolts and nails section of the hardware store.

As you probably know, more than half of any mechanical job is just getting the right tools to do the work...

The rivet gun, as mentioned in an earlier post, is a standard Sears gun for about $10. I'll post a pic sometime. (But, hey, there's more for your life at Sears!)

The deal with the too short tip and small piece of 10 gauge or 1/8" thick metal is simple, but difficult to describe. Here goes --

The first problem to avoid is that you don't want the rivet gun even touching the track when you pop the rivet or you will damage the track.

The second problem (for me) was that the part inside the gun that grabs and pulls the rivet WOULD NOT firmly grab enough of the shaft of the rivet to do the pulling. If the gun doesn't go down on the rivet shaft far enough, it will not bite the rivet firmly enough, slip, and leave you with a partially pulled rivet and a mess.

To solve the second problem, I filed down the sides of the tip on the gun so it would go down into the 3/8" wide track far enough to grab the rivet shaft securely AND not touch the sides of the track.

But, the gun tip still wasn't flat tight on the rivet head itself because the tip still wouldn't extend down far enough without touching the top of the track. It would grab the rivet shank OK, but the tip absolutely must be flat on the rivet head without the gun touching the track and it wasn't.

To solve that problem, I found that old piece of 10 gauge or 1/8" thick metal -- you can use whatever is handy -- and I drilled a 3/16" hole in it for the rivet shaft and then cut the piece out to fit into the 3/8" wide track.

The dance steps go:

1. Lay the track in the correct position and mark the holes.
2. Lightly center punch the holes to stop the drill from wandering before you drill, double check everything and then drill.
3. Put the track on the crossbar and put the first rivet in the hole. Check all the holes for alignment.
4. Next, I put the small piece of metal with the 3/16" hole in it down over the rivet shaft and flat up against the rivet head.
5. Then I put the gun down on the rivet shaft until it is flat against the metal spacer, held down hard allowing no movement, and squeezed like a gorilla. Until it popped. Actually it takes two or so pumps of the gun before it pops. Then moved the spacer and gun to the next rivet and so on.

Said another way...

Because I filed the sides of the tip on the gun down, it would then extend about 1/4" down into the track and grab the rivet shank securely. I couldn't do this before because the tip was a little more than 3/8" wide and wouldn't extend into the 3/8" wide track at all. (The track is 3/8" deep as well as 3/8" wide.)

After filing the tip, I still had a small gap between the rivet gun tip and the rivet head. To close the remaining gap, I made a spacer from scrap metal with an 3/16" hole in it. Now I could hold the rivet head down tight and pop the rivet correctly without having the gun touch either the sides or top of the track.

The reason it is important to put a flat surface against the rivet head is that the head will shape into whatever is holding it down when you pop the rivet. There is a huge amount of pressure shaping the rivet head as you pop it. As I said in the other post, what holds the rivet head down has to be a flat surface like the rivet gun tip or you have a mess.

In other words, if you use something that has an indentation in it, it will leave a raised surface that the car will whack it as it rolls by.

I screwed up my first rivet and had to drill it out. If that happens and you drill carefully, it'll remove OK.

I tip my hat to Brad if he did that with washers for the spacer.

There probably is a gun with a specially designed tip for this job. If so, all these details are completely unnecessary. I just couldn't find one quickly. There are a lot of boats with these traveler tracks on them. If I didn't live 3 hours from the nearest Hobie dealer, I'd probably gotten a clue on this, but...

BTW, I put the car in the track before I popped the first rivet.

I know this is overkill on details but if I have left out any parts, let me know. I figure Matt will show up sometime and say, "What the heck!?"

Half of fun of owning a boat is outfitting it anyway, right? Right? What?! NO??!!!


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 Post subject: Comp tip plus Bob
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:16 am 
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Location: Southern NJ
I don't have the cradle for comp tip. For years I took an old sweat shirt, slid it over the Bob and tie the sleeves in a knot. It fits nice and snug on the tramp cradled by the rear crossbar and hull layed diagonally across the tramp. On the slide in end I put a #3 wood golf sock for protection, that fits right on the crossbar next to the hull. I have a piece of line tied to that part of the crossbar. Make loop over the sock, run the line through the standing rigging padeye over the sweat shirt large sleeve knot, then around the rear cross bar with a couple of half hitch's. Then for added tension I run my sheet line to a tramp hook and put some tension on it and lock the cam cleat. Been hauling it like that for hundreds of hours and all stays snug and nothing worn or damaged.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:59 pm 
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Location: Alberta, CAN
Thanks you very much JJ for the detailed explanation. It's very clear now. One of my problems was I had never understood or seen an usued RIVET and I was having a hard time visualizing what you were trying to say. [I actually found a couple of good videos on You Tube explaining everything I needed to know about rivets.]

Today I tried to look for some Rivet Guns (Sears in Canada didn't have any up here... but quite a few in the States.) Same with Home Depot.. they just had a cheap one not at all heavy duty... I also found a couple of air guns but too expensive for just one job... Maybe Matt (or one of the dealers can show us what tool or tip they are using and we can go buy it... Failing that, JJ your explanation should work just fine.

One question tho: When you use that 1/8 thick plate as a spacer, is it causing the shaft to break off at a higher point than right at the head of the rivet? And instead of filing the tip of the gun tinner... why can't one use a thicker plate as a spacer... (Mnd you it might be harder to drill a 3/16 hole in the middle perhaps?)

Also, good idea to insert the car in the track as yo said, otherwise is the only other way would be to take apart the cross bar?

Thanks

Dick


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:53 pm 
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Location: Central Maine
wannahobie wrote:
zzcoreyzz wrote:
Hey Jim...

How's the tension on the tramp? Looks a little slack in the photos?
Yup, the 3/16" line I used is not a 'low stretch' variety, just generic line I had lying around. I definitely need to upgrade that lacing. As soon as I had it all tensioned, it began to sag due to line stretch. Not too mention, there was some stuff on the tramp at the time (backrests, etc.).

As soon as I get some new lacing on there, I will take another pic.
I actually bought some new 3/16" line to replace the cheap 3/16 stuff I used initially. The low stretch stuff works much better. Able to hold the tension nicely.

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2007 Hobie Wave


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:13 am 
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Quote:
When you use that 1/8 thick plate as a spacer, is it causing the shaft to break off at a higher point than right at the head of the rivet? And instead of filing the tip of the gun tinner... why can't one use a thicker plate as a spacer... (Mnd you it might be harder to drill a 3/16 hole in the middle perhaps?)


I don't think the rivet is breaking off at a higher point. I assume as long as the mechanism inside the gun is able to firmly grab the shaft of the rivet, it pops normally.

Which answers the second part of your question also: If a thicker plate is used, the gun is higher up and the mechanism inside the gun won't grab enough of the rivet shaft to pull it properly.

Yes, if you leave the car off, you're stuck with taking the boat apart. It didn't get in my way after I put it on though. It rolled nicely out of the way.

I would like Matt to address this question at some point. I am sure Hobie assumes the dealers will install these kits for their customers. However, since we're in the same situation -- far away from a dealer -- we're in DIY (do it yourself) mode.

Pics below.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:30 am 
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Picture is worth thousands of words. Bigger image requires click.

Image

Tip of the standard gun will not fit down into the track.

Image

If you remove the tip and file the sides it will fit.

Image

If you get the tip down in the track, the rivet gun's pulling mechanism -- which is inside the black tube -- can grab the shaft of the rivet securely. I assume the pulling mechanism is about 1/3 to halfway from the tip.

Image

The spacer and rivet installed in the gun.

Image

All together. The rivet gun does not touch either the sides of the track or the top of the track and therefore the track won't be damaged when you use the gun and pop the rivet. Second, the gun is far enough down on the rivet shaft to grab it securely. Finally, the head of the rivet is firmly held down to the track so the rivet will pop flat. The goal is to have an securely mounted, unbent track and flat rivet heads so the car will travel smooth and freely.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:17 am 
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Location: Alberta, CAN
JJ, Those are AWSOME pictures. Thank you. I think there are no more words needed LOL! (Please make sure they keep these pictures on your server for a long time, in case others need it too).

BTW, is there a specific point on the crossbar where the track needs to be set? I noticed the bottom of the track is slightly curved to sit well on the crossbar. Or is it just a matter of positioning it at the crest of the crossbar?

I also remember people talking about screws. Are screws being used anywhere in addition to rivets?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:37 pm 
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Location: Alberta, CAN
JJ,

I found out a little more about a better Hand Riveter from Doug Murray from Murrays Catalogue who said he uses a 3/32" or 1/8" (that's the size of the middle hole) Stop Sleeve (that's about 1/4" deep) to act as a spacer.

He uses a much better Riveter than the $9.95 Sears Riveter. The one he uses is called a Marson 39000 HP2 Professional Hand Riveter (Regular from $48.00 and up... but available from some online stores at $25.00... he matched the lowest price for me...).

This one is designed to pull up to 3/16" stainless steel rivets, and unlike the $9.95 Sears version (that's only good for aluminum rivets), has no problem with not being able to grip the shaft properly -- even after giving up about 1/4" to the spacer... so no need to file down the tip to get into the trak. And the inside mechanism makes it a lot easier to POP, even tho you still need to pull hard.

He has another one that is pretty heavy-duty with longer arms that makes things a lot easier... but that's $90+ and is only required if one intends to POP many many rivets at a time.

FWIW.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:39 pm 
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Location: Central Maine
Great details on the track installation. Thanks to all who documented.

On another note, does the traveller kit come with a longer mainsheet? It would seem the stock 36' sheet might be a little short w/ a traveller? I ask, since I plan on upgrading the mainsheet to something other than the cheap fuzzy dacron line the Wave came with.

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2007 Hobie Wave


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