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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:33 pm 
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My single point is that this is a concept at this point. We need to see the product, costs and possible negative effects on the US markets. We held off on the Tiger for years, mostly to protect the H18 and 20 classes. Once it gained some international attention... we brought it in. We also get to let others work out the bugs!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:45 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
My single point is that this is a concept at this point. We need to see the product, costs and possible negative effects on the US markets. We held off on the Tiger for years, mostly to protect the H18 and 20 classes. Once it gained some international attention... we brought it in. We also get to let others work out the bugs!


This is good information to know Matt.

If this is truly the way HCNA is going to move then I highly suggest that you weigh in to keep updating the Tiger to remain competitive with changes in the F18 rule. If you do not have plans to import the new F18 then please work to keep the Tiger competitive for US F18/Hobie sailors.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:12 am 
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I agree with Rich in not seeing a problem with allowing the new F18 to race one design at hobie regattas with the tigers. Those that want the new boat will then be able to pass there current boats down to those wanting to get into that class at a reasonable cost. Allowing the class to continue to grow. Even if the new boat has some advantage's over the current tiger, I think the one thing the F18 class has shown is it comes down to who is running the tiller and who is crewing the boat and not the boat itself. I do not see it any difference than getting a older Hobie 16 and racing against the newest boats, it gives people a chance to get into the sport see how great it is and work there way up the fleet and then when there ready to take the next step to be at the top of A fleet then a new boat may be in order.

I also agree with 2477 and do not want to see the tiger relegated to a one design class. The tiger has benefited so much by being tied to the f18 class. Upgrading our 2001 boat to all the upgrades of a 2008 has made the boat continue to be competitive with all the latest f18's out there. I think the new boat has the ability to make the f18 class and Hobie class racing better for those that love the format.

Dan


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:35 pm 
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Nacra has changed designs on there F18 and they all race together. The older design seems to be used more by sailors starting in the class. The Tiger is still a great boat but the newer designs are becoming more popular that is why Hobie is coming out with a new F18. Why would you not race the Tiger and the new F18 together ? If I was buying a new Hobie that met the F18 rules I would buy there new design even if it cost more than the Tiger. The Tiger will become an old design no matter what Hobie does to it and I think sailors new to the class will buy used ones. The Tiger is not really one design like the Hobie 16in my opinion. The Tiger has different sails, rudders, boards, tramps, snuffers, booms, rigging, blocks depending on what year Tiger you have. I race on the east coast FL, NC, SC, GA and the newest Tiger we have racing is 2005 I think and sailors are waiting for new Infusions. It will be a tough decision for Hobie. I look forward to seeing there new design and hope it comes to the USA.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:48 pm 
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I don't hear much discussion within the HCA leadership about allowing this new boat to race with the Tiger One-Design. It's either one design or it's not. Brand loyalty for the sake of brand loyalty alone is kind of foolish. The discussion is basically between Tiger OD or Open F18 but it will be a while before it all shakes out. I think the Tiger OD proponents will get the first crack at making the one-Design happen.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:19 pm 
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I think it should just be the Hobie F-18 racing. Tigers and new boats racing together. Then we still have a Hobie fleet and the F-18 racers can buy the new boat to be competitive.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:45 pm 
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hobie18rich wrote:
I think it should just be the Hobie F-18 racing. Tigers and new boats racing together. Then we still have a Hobie fleet and the F-18 racers can buy the new boat to be competitive.


What class rules would you race under?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:30 am 
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aren't both boats f-18 legal? whats the class problem? If they use a new mast and sail plan they would still fit the "Formula"
Would the new boat be better yes will it probably be a bit more technical to sail yes. That will make for a chance to have the top guys and f-18 racers on the new boat. intermediate or "B" fleet sailors on the tigers. When you get to the point it matters you buy the new boat.
Also there are some that only race f-18 and not hobie events this would give them the option of staying with hobie.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:48 am 
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hobie18rich wrote:
aren't both boats f-18 legal? whats the class problem?


Yes and no. The Tiger has slightly different class rules than an F-18 - mostly having to do with crew weight and the lack of a small sailplan.

The Tiger is an ISAF International Class - as is the F-18. The Tiger does fit the F-18 rules, but not vice-versa.

It is unlikely the new Hobie F-18 will be seen in the states within the next three years. We'll jump off that bridge when we get to it.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:29 pm 
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I wonder what the F18 guys will think about us using THEIR rules while at the same time excluding most of them from competing. Something about that scenario doesn't sit right with me.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:13 pm 
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Two options come to my mind

1. Adapt the Hobie Tiger Class rules to allow them to accomodate the F18 differences. But you're still losing the true OD element. It's a Formula Class, you just still call it OD.

2. Adapt the Hobie Only mandate to allow Tigers to race with F18's at "Hobie" OD events. Basically going with the Formula format and allowing the Tiger to become a Formula Class and forgoing the OD elements.

OK, now I just thought of a third one.
3. Split the class. Tigers, and the new F18.
We've all seen how good that is for a limited market share. Less of both boats on the line.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:27 am 
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Guys, just for your information, I´m still in Europe and two weeks ago, I raced with Mitch Booth in Hyères and had the chance to discussed the new F18 with Mitch and other guys from the factory since Mitch is really involve in the development.
Around 2 to 4 sets of hulls are already produced and final testing is planned to be by the beginning of November. Famous F18 sailors invited to test the boat: Mitch Booth, Darren Bundock, Gleen Ashby, J-C Mourniac. I was not allowed to see the boat but Mitch's son saw it and he said to me: this is the sickest Hobie cat ever, really modern. I know that they were still working on the mast and sail plan. Only the front and rear beams will remain the same as the Tiger, the rest is totally new. Mitch mentionned that the hull shape of the infusion and the capricorn was a step further than the Tiger and the new Hobie F18 will be the step further than the nacra/capricorn.
Guys, let me tell you that with everything I've heard: Its gonna be a sick and fast boat.
A new casting with a new blade, carbon daggerboard. New Mast. A clean platform and many new innovations. Its gonna be a really modern high performance F18 Hobie Cat.

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mmiller
Plus... we do not import all of the HCF products. If it is not a product we agree with or causes confusion in our markets, we would likely not import it here.


Matt
Keeping the new F18 out of North America is really not a good idea. A lot of people are now opting for an infusion or a capricorn because of the more modern design and look. Let me tell you that nacra and capricorn took a part of the market in F18 catamarans since 2 or 3 years. We ceeded all of sales to those manufacturers. Not importing the new F18 from Hobie will increase this phenomena. HC USA must absolutely import this new F18 as soon as possible. The Tiger class is now big enough to stand by itself. In fact, the new F18 will increase the market of secondhand Tiger. The Tiger will eventually become more affordable to younger sailors and more sailors will join the Tiger and F18 class on a Hobie.
I'm pretty sure that the boat will be ready for Belgium F18 worlds


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:34 pm 
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So if the front and rear beams are the same, I guess I will be able to buy an upgrade kit? :lol: Hope you are sleeping better without the human truck Alberto :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:55 pm 
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Oli_Sextant wrote:
The Tiger will eventually become more affordable to younger sailors and more sailors will join the Tiger and F18 class on a Hobie.


You said "and", I think if the New boat is everything you say, it will be "or".

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:06 pm 
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Quote:
Matt Bounds said:

It is unlikely the new Hobie F-18 will be seen in the states within the next three years. We'll jump off that bridge when we get to it.


Matt the bridge is collapsing time to not even be on it. Formula 18 sailing is where we can all get together on different platforms and sail boat for boat. It has proven itself throughout the world. If you are a single handed sailor you should consider the A-Class. The other great class is still the Hobie 16 for those who do not want all that the other two classes offer.

The H16 is great because you can buy a fairly competitive boat cheap. There are some older A-Cats for a relatively good price. I just put together an older Boyer 3, though I did not beat my tuning partners, I was not an embarrassing distance behind them and it was my first day. They have been sailing A-Cats for a long time. As mentioned earlier the newer Hobie Formula 18s coming out will put more used boats on the market and make Formula 18s (Tigers) cheaper and make the Class stronger. This is all good. I see no downside to this.

As for the Tiger class rules: Right now they are what they are. I would like to sail every regatta with the Formula 18 rules but the IHCA decided that it was better to throw a couple of barbs in with the weight and sails to keep a “Class Rule Bookâ€


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