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 Post subject: Hobie Kayak Sail
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:10 pm
Posts: 46
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi all posters

more on the availability on the smaller kayak sail for use as a jib on the Hobie AI, my Hobie Kayaks 2007-08 Accessories and parts lists, page 8

8490X Replacement Sail $230.00
84503 Replacement Mast $95.00

whereas the total sail kit is listed with various colours for $290.00

I am hoping to source the sail from my dealer, i think it is just a matter of if the dealer has any spare and or does a bit of business with kayakers therefore needing to stock replacements.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:34 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:07 pm
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Location: CLEARWATER, MN
I would appreciate knowing if one or more dealers would be willing
to separately sell the 20.25 sail from its mast.
My dealer, here in MN, will only sell the kit...not separate the mast
from the sail.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:45 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:10 pm
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
I am picking up a second hand but unused jib from a small catamaran, saw it advertised in local trading post online, price was cheaper than buying kayak sail, size is about same in area as the Hobie kayak sail but it has a proper jib cut with a luff of 10.7 ft, leech of 10.4 ft and foot of 1.2 ft.

Compared to the kayak sail i guess the foot is shorter which just means i may be able to put another padeye in 8 to 10 inch rear of the front padeye to ensure the centre of effort is not too far forward.

I have found some gadgets in my tool cupboards that when put together should work as a rotating jib halyard to allow the main sail to still reef in OK.

Of course i should not use the jib when blowing more than 12 to 15 knots, but then i was thinking if i can still reef the mainsail, the jib might stay put anyhoo.........plus i have just organised two mini tramps, constructed from some left over garden shade cloth, to which i purchased sew on velcrose and having this sewn on with an industrial machine.

My idea is to have a bum seat that i can hike out onto but still keep my feet in the main hull , so as to not put my full weight ( i am only 70 kilos anyway) and offset any stronger wind forces...if it doesnt work it should still look good anyway, i will post some pictures later.


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 Post subject: Re: Hobie Kayak Sail
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:34 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9226
Location: Oceanside, California
Quote:
2007-08 Accessories and parts lists, page 8

8490X Replacement Sail $230.00
84503 Replacement Mast $95.00

whereas the total sail kit is listed with various colours for $290.00


In the 2009 catalog... The "replacement" sails are no longer offered due to them not selling and that the kit assembly is changed.

Part numbers:

84513001 SAIL KIT KAYAK TURQ/PAPAYA
84514001 SAIL KIT KAYAK WHITE/RED
84515001 SAIL KIT KAYAK WHITE/TURQ
84516001 SAIL KIT KAYAK SILVER/WHITE

The current kit price is $319.95

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: jib for AI
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:06 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:10 pm
Posts: 46
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Well i excitedly managed to finalise the addition of a 20 sq foot jib to my Hobie AI, basically created a small daisy wheel on the top of the mast by doing similar to Robertse's posting but instead having a 3 inch stainless chain plate swivelling on the 3/16 bolt. Tested on dry land first and i could furl mainsail OK but not much room for error (or as i found out later bending of the chain plate under load)

I first tried with some doubled-up shock cord between top of halyard to chain plate but there was too much sag to leeward in the jib and couldnt control properly, so replaced with some halyard rope (which according to salesman where i bought fittings has some stretch in anyway)

I also added a new padeye 10 inches back from the front padeye bolted thru the hull with the intention that it would be stonger and couldnt pull out but found this location not as good as the front padeye for wind dynamics between the jib and mainsail, so had to revert to front padeye.

Rather than hoisting the halyard near vertical to main i used the front padeye also to help keep the lines further away from any tangles with the mainsail. I added micro cam cleats with fairleads just forward of the seat at 45 degree angle and as you can see from photo i set up a temporary track for the jib sheets to run thru by putting a bungy cord across the aka and with a spring clamp in place that i can move inboard or out to alter angle of jib sheeting.

Down to sailing....the excitement of finally getting on the water to test on the first time was a let down, barely a wisp of wind, i had to peddle to where there was any, but it still helped me to sort out the best set up.

The next day, race day, ha ha i am going to suprise the fleet today (so i thought), wel i get all rigged up with 5 -10 knots of breeze but patchy with araes of nothing on the lake. Having floated around before in similar conditions i also packed the peddles this time (to see what reaction i got if i used the peddles to move betwen blank spots) Anyway the jib worked great in these light winds, even up to 10 knots everything was under control, speed was noticeably better and i rode towards the finish beating Hobie 14s and Hobie 16s ....but was disqualified for peddling (i was spotted a few times making up ground when there was no wind)

So for the afternoon race i promised i wouldnt peddle, as the winds were increasing and more consistent, the dilemma was whether to take down the jib or not....oh well just go for it i say to myself, i can always furl the main if the winds get too strong!!

Started off good in moderate winds BUT as i was getting near the first windward mark i could see the lake getting whitecaps which usually mean 15 to 20 knots, oops now i get a bit worried, the jib gets a bit hard to handle and the lee ama is burying badly, so i reef the main, helps a bit BUT then the centre of effort is too far forward and i cant point properly, the full jib is pulling the bow around to the leeside, so i give up the fight and bear away to reach down to the second mark anyway, wow what a ride, almost planing, get around second mark for another reach back to start, still have the main reefed, not game to let it all out, still almost planing, a Nacra 5.8M screams past me with a high pitched humm coming from his rudders straining under the load.

I made it back safely to shore and took of the jib, found my chain plate bent somewhat from the load and even though i didnt break anything i would agree with previous posters that if you add a jib to the Hobie AI ONLY use in 10 knots or less, because lets face it the mast is stayless, therefore not as rigid as sloop rigs and adding a jib just upsets the mainsail dynamics in higher winds.

But i still cant wait for another 10 knot day to use again in a race, i will be replacing my 3 inch chain plate with a four inch of heavier gauge for my daisy wheel to make sure the furling definately doesnt fowl up next time. I have added some pikkies, but unfortunately the close up of the top of mast with the daisy wheel got cropped as i took in the sun and couldnt see the frame properly, the jib is brand new hence all the creases from being folded up for some time - after riding out the big blow, creases are no more!!

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:05 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:07 pm
Posts: 401
Location: CLEARWATER, MN
Are you worried about not having any warranty coverage for any possible breakage caused by installing/using a jib?

I received a couple of warnings from both Hobie and my dealer about voiding my warranty if I tried to modify my AI.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:07 am
Posts: 598
Location: Punta Gorda, FL
You need a quick and easy way to douse that jib when the winds come up like that, i tri. Can you post closer pics of your modifications?

I doubt shattering your mast with your jib would be covered under warranty. ;)


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 Post subject: Jib
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:10 pm
Posts: 46
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Tomray and Tidalwave

yes i am a bit worried about losing warranty, BUT that concern is overwritten by the fun of going faster with the jib. And as i didnt break anything in 20 knots, just proves i am very lucky or the mast and front padeye are strong, but i do intend to restrict the jib use to 10 knots in the future. I could try dousing but i can imagine the tangles that would occur.

I have tried to capture some close up shots of the fittings, BUT i dont have a good camera, just used my phone, so apologies. Basically my set up on top of mast is similar to robertse did, his posting and photos are at:

http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=9893&sid=1f13b613c7c647306055cf21d1dc0231

i drilled thru the plug from the back (remove sail and strap and plug slip sout) and then made small hole in strap for 3/16 stainless thread to push thru after refitting the plug. You will need a 3 inch or 2 and 1/2 inch thread not usually available at the hardware shops, but at special nut and bolts shop.

I have posted an image showing the set up, have now used one inch washers between the 3 inch stainless plate, also will add a spring washer to the two top nuts to prevent release, which happened last time under load, bending the angle of the halyard line down fowling the main somewhat.

Image

Image

The halyard goes to the front padeye thru a shackle and back thru a another eye to keep clear of the jib sheets etc and back thru a cleat, with the excess bundled up and stowed in the mesh pocket:

Image

Image

Having the halyard cleat nearby worked well as i was able to tighten the front halyard (and the jib luff) or loosen as needed. My system allows to furl the sail, the jib halyard going to front instead of vertical to cross brace lessens the chance of fowling the sail or mast.

I may experiment with moving the jib tack (front) back to another padeye 10 inches back from the front, which if i get caught in a stronger wind and have to furl th emain may keep from the bow bearing away under too muc wind on the front of the AI. That also may help to point better too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:07 am
Posts: 598
Location: Punta Gorda, FL
Thanks, itri. On my Klepper foldable I put a tack line through a block at the bow. I launch the jib out of the boat with the halyard and pull it forward with the tack line. When I want to put it away, I just release them both and pull the sail down into the boat. It's a small sail. ;)

I want to do something similar to my AI, but probably not until the light winds of summer become frustrating again... ;)


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:51 pm
Posts: 83
Location: Central Florida
Tom Ray wrote:
Hmmm...

Then maybe the Adventure Island needs another mast mounted forward for that sail... ;)


like my AI maybe? :D

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=20991

_________________
Sterling
2008 Papaya Adventure Island with Roller Furler Jib
Image
Post about my jib
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=20991


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:41 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:57 am
Posts: 270
Location: Perth, Australia
TIDALWAVE wrote:
I received an email from Hobie about buying a 20.25 replacement sail...

They stated that they would probably have a new design/color model 20.25 sail available sometime later this fall/winter.

I was confused why Hobie wouldn't stock a replacement 20.25 sail for
the Hobie kayaks, which can be purchased with the 20.25 sail/mast kit.

I know that the AI was not designed for a jib...but like quite a few other
AI owners...I like 'putzing around' with my boats...redesigning features...

I also realize that putting a jib on the AI could overstress the boat in high winds...if I break the mast...it, of course, will be my fault.

I have installed a sail kit on my Grumman 17' sport canoe with jib.
I did some adapting on my Nacra 18' racing cat
I have a large 'parafoil' chute I got from my brother-inlaw who used it
in skydiving...I rigged it up on the bow of my 27' sailboat...boy, did it
pull going on a downwind run!...but was a devil to bring down.
I also have a medium sized parafoil kite...I am going to see if I can rig it to the AI (with the mast removed) along with a sea anchor for setting and dosing the parafoil.


dude i would pay money to see an AI being pulled behind a big kite, but i reckon it should be pulled from the bow not the mast. This should lift the bow out of the water when running with the wind.

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