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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:12 am 
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Roadrunner,

I seem to recall that you used the 3M ScotchWeld DP 8010 adhesive to reinforce a broken cam post. I'm faced with a similar situation and was wondering how you applied the scotchweld product. The description I've read of the product indicates that you need a special applicator/plunger as well as a 10:1 mixing nozzle. Is this true or did you just apply the adhesive manually, and if so, how? I'd prefer not to spend the additional $70 to purchase the special applicator, etc so any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks.......


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:44 pm 
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I didn't bother with the expense of purchasing either the plunger or the nozzle, but did a quick mixing job right on the palette (piece of cardboard). It worked great. Using a modeling brush handle, I simply pushed each tube down the same amount (pre-marked on the brush handle), using 1/2 of the contents per session.

I used latex gloves and smeared it on with the fingers, but Yakaholic came up with an excellent idea -- cut some PVC lengths in half, insert the glue in each half and sandwich them together around the cam columns.

A couple of notes: My glue had only 5 minutes of working time (despite what it said on the label), so having everything set up ahead of time and even doing a dry run will help insure a quick application. I ended up using 2 tubes -- the first was DP 8010 and the second application was DP 8010 NS, which had some stiffeners in it. Using Yak's sandwich technique, I think you could get away with just one unit of the 8010. Finally, make sure everything is clean and sanded, especially the bottom surface at the base of the columns.

BTW, my original repair is still working. I have not held back at all -- the boat has sprinted, raced and endured every punishment I have been able to come up with. This product has exceeded all my expectations! 8)

Image


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:59 pm 
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Roadrunner,

Thanks for the response and as usual, you're a "fount of information."

Another quick question: did you remove the bolt that threads into the cam post prior to applying the adhesive? Any issues with the adhesive seeping into the interior space of the cam post or rethreading the cam post with the bolt? If so, how did you address this problem?

Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:57 pm 
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Fish, I didn't touch the cam bolts and they weren't affected by the glue job. Some time later one of the cam bolts started backing out. At that time I removed both of them, cleaned the cavity with a bottle brush and reinstalled them with a dab of conventional epoxy -- wanted to be able to adjust them later if necessary. This has worked out very well -- the epoxy has just enough bite to keep the bolts in place. Nothing has moved since.

One of the cams is getting a little worn, so I may have to replace or adjust it soon for a better "bite" on the axle shaft. So it's nice to be able to move it if necessary.

If anyone needs to perform this operation, be careful not to use too much epoxy -- it will come right out the top and attempt to glue your cam in place! If that happens, you can keep rotating the cam until the glue gives up. Experience is a great teacher. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:25 pm 
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Roadrunner,

This info has been very helpful! If they're not doing so already, Hobie should be compensating you for all the great support that you're providing to their customers! At the very least, maybe some free accessories or a Hobie kayak?

I did remove the cam bolt in question to take a closer look at the crack. When I replace the bolt do I need to readjust the position of the cam lock? I recall from a previous posting that you want the cam locks to rotate 360 degrees?

This will be the last question. Again, thanks for all the help!

Bst,
fishkayak


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:40 pm 
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Ha! Hobie could double my salary and it still wouldn't cost them a dime. I went to the Hobie factory with a problem on my first Hobie Mirage (subsequently renamed "Classic") in 2000 and was very impressed with the way they handled the situation. That's how it got started.

I like their products and love their innovation -- have tried and/or had other pedaling and paddling craft and nothing else has come close (for me). I get more fun and exercise that would otherwise never happen if not for their kayaks, and feel very grateful. Best of all, since I don't work for Hobie, I can't get in trouble for stating my own opinion!

I have greatly benefited by the very helpful and innovative time and talent that many have shared on this forum, and am happy to repay their generosity whenever possible.
______________________________

How far you screw in the cam bolt determines the height of the cam. You want to set this height so the cam rotates about 90 to 180 degrees when securing the Drive hand tight. This allows for expansion (or contraction) due to heat or wear -- you don't ever want the cam to spin all the way around with the Drive on.

For my Adventure, this amounts to no more than 1/8 inch vertical play of the cam when empty. You don't want it so tight that it binds on its seat. Each boat can be a little different so it is best to set your final cam height with the Drive at hand so you can double check your settings on the spot. (If you need to epoxy as above, use a slow set so you have plenty of time to make the adjustment).8)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:32 pm 
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Roadrunner - thanks again for the good info!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:05 pm 
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fishkayak7

I too worked once with DP 8010.

Without the special gun you have to be careful not to depress the plungers unevenly, and to make sure your 2 "homemade plungers" are each the size of the tubes.

The stuff smells pretty bad - do it outside & with a fan blowing the fumes away. Tricky to hold your breath while your head is in the hull working with the glue. :oops: Use gloves and protective eyewear. Yes it dries pretty fast.

Expensive & nasty to work with, but it does work.

Got mine direct from the 3M online store.

Good luck


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:33 pm 
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Yakaholic,

I just placed my order with 3M and since I've never worked with this stuff I'm very appreciative of any advice that you can provide.

Roadrunner mentioned that you had used pvc along with the scotchweld adhesive to reinforce the cam post. That sounds like a great idea and I was wondering if you might be able to provide more detail. Also, how did you construct the "homemade plungers?"

Thanks again for the sage advice. Its great that you guys are willing to share some of your knowledge!

Bst,
fishkayak7


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:30 am 
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Well, actually I have never had a Hobie develope a column crack. So, my repair suggestion with PVC halves has not been done by me. Someone in Australia did, however, use the suggestion successfully while waiting for a new hull. Using the PVC makes for an easier way to get the glue onto the cam column - plus adds all the extra material for strength.

I used the Scotch Weld to glue 2 3/4" PVC end caps to the bottom of some thin & cracked seat plug holes on the Island.

2 Different sized wooden dowles marked ahead of time with several marks put on with a ruler. In practice it was difficult to control the mix, the small plunger takes far less effort to push down. Steady hand and careful pressure. Mixture needs to be 10:1 - so if you press out 1" out of the small cylinder you need to press out 1" out of the large cylinder. If you accidentally press out too much on one you will need to compensate.

I mixed up 3 small batches for my application and ended up using whole tube in about an hour. Once mixed you have 5 mins to work.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:54 pm 
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Yakaholic wrote:
Different sized wooden dowles marked ahead of time with several marks put on with a ruler. In practice it was difficult to control the mix, the small plunger takes far less effort to push down. Steady hand and careful pressure. Mixture needs to be 10:1 - so if you press out 1" out of the small cylinder you need to press out 1" out of the large cylinder. If you accidentally press out too much on one you will need to compensate.


I didn't find the DP 8010 difficult to work with -- just the time constraint. There's no need to plunge both sides at the same time. Using whatever you want to plunge with (dowels would be great if you have them) you should have no trouble stopping at your mark (masking tape works fine for an easy to see depth line) if you plunge just one side at a time. That way you also have an option to keep the contents separated until you're ready to mix.

BTW, if you're using the disposable latex gloves for hand protection, double glove each hand so if you get a little tear on one you're still covered (works great for grouting tile also). 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:44 pm 
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Roadrunner,

I haven't received the adhesive yet so it's hard for me to visualize how the mixing process will work. Do I need to apply the masking tape directly onto the cylinders themselves to mark the depth line and how should the markings be spaced to ensure an accurate 10:1 mixing ratio? It seems from Yakaholics posting that the duo pack contains a large and small cylinder so if I mark out one inch on the small cylinder and one inch on the larger cylinder does that equate to the 10:1 ratio or should I space the markings out differently? I guess it'll make more sense once I receive the adhesive which should be early next week.

Regarding the use of "dowels," I assuming that the "dowels" are inserted inside the cylinders in similar fashion to a caulking gun to extract the adhesive? Also, did you mix and apply the adhesive by hand? I like Yakaholics suggesting about splitting a pvc pipe and applying the adhesive to the pvc before applying the pvc to the cam post. Seems like the cam post would be further reinforced by the addition of the pvc pipe and it's probably less messy!

thanks again....


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 Post subject: cooling the epoxy
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:50 pm 
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You could put the adhesive in the fridge for a few hours prior to putting it to use, buys you more time after it is mixed till it starts setting.
especially the liberate amount creates heat when it starts reacting, thus excellerating the proces.

PF

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:16 pm 
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fishkayak7 wrote:
Do I need to apply the masking tape directly onto the cylinders themselves to mark the depth line and how should the markings be spaced to ensure an accurate 10:1 mixing ratio? I guess it'll make more sense once I receive the adhesive which should be early next week.

I assuming that the "dowels" are inserted inside the cylinders in similar fashion to a caulking gun to extract the adhesive? I like Yakaholics suggesting about splitting a pvc pipe and applying the adhesive to the pvc before applying the pvc to the cam post.


Both cylinders are the same length, but different diameter, so as long as you draw them down equally, the proper ratio will be preserved. Yes, you plunge from the rear. I mark the plunger and stop when the mark becomes flush with the rear of the tube. This will all become apparent when you get the product.

Yak's PVC halves sounds like a great plan. Be sure to fit it up dry first and verify that you can reach everything. We're looking forward to seeing your result! 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:52 am 
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Thanks for the info and I'll post up with some pics once the project is completed.


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