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 Post subject: Outboard motors
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:06 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:50 am
Posts: 5
Location: Prescott, AZ
I just purchased a Hobie 21 SC (sail #316) from an owner who never had need of a motor because of his large family of enthusiastic paddlers. Plus, he was very knowledgeable sailor.

He spent over six hours showing me how to rig the boat in his driveway, and how to set it up for safe trailering. Incredibly generous with his time!

By contrast, I only have one crew member, my mentally ill son, who lives with me six months of the year in AZ, and while he can help with raising and lowering the mast, sailing with Richard will be like single-handing the boat.

Accordingly, I decided that a motor is an imperative, and contacted the original dealer in Iowa, who offered to order me the proper mount for $460. He said the bracket that attaches to the stern crossbar is a permanent fixture, and that the extension is removable.

He also said this set-up is designed to carry a maximum of just 30 lbs, and handle 200 foot-lbs of torque. He has been in the Hobie business for 34 years, so I took a chance on him and expect to see the mount before New Years Day.

Does this sound like the right piece of gear... a copy of the original equipment offered for the SC? Thirty pounds means only 2 or 2-1/2 HP, with a 15" short shaft, no reverse drive, and no alternator.

However, I thought the SC options included running lights, which would require a battery and alternator, hence a bigger motor, at least 4 HP, and a stronger mount to support 60 lbs.

Not to mention the potential need for a longer shaft to keep the prop in the water, which is also only offered with the bigger motors, 3-1/2 HP and up, which weigh 45 lbs or more.

Anyway, I have made a deposit on a 4 HP Yamaha, with a long shaft, reverse, and no alternator option, that only weighs 50 lbs. It is the lightest motor in this category.

Some real-world feedback would be welcome.


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 Post subject: Motor Mount
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:52 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Treasure Island, Florida
My pre-owned SC came w/ a 2.5 Mariner on a Cheatah bar. it works very well; I have cruised at 6 knots at half throttle. I believe the SC does not come with running lights, but there is a post on that subject.

i can supply pictures and info if you need.

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Jerry Malone


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:22 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:23 am
Posts: 564
Location: Lake Norman NC
I have a 1988 Mercury 3 HP
weight is 28 lbs and has a short shaft
It will run for miles and miles on the gas tank
You are looking for trouble with much more weight
no reverse gear never has been a problem
stearing is done with the rudders
pushes boat very fast never any trouble in any current or any wind
You are not looking for a speed boat

When I want to go fast I get on my hydra-sports 23 cc with the 250
Gary


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:13 am
Posts: 40
Location: Seabrook, TX
Barneycat
My son is Aspergers (autistic) and our Hobie 21SC has been perfect 'tool' for him to 'participate' (step mast and jib-sheet crew with my help).
So far we have not used the Mercury/Mariner 2.5hp outboard that came with boat as it was froze-up. I rebuilt it and plan to 'crusie' Clear Lake with Sawyer (age 12) and Rachel/Daltry (twins age eight). So I too know 'single-hand'.

Sounds like your Hobie dealer got you a Cheetah motor mount. 50 lbs Yamaha is way too much weight!

The new 4-stroke outboards are heavier than 2-strokes of same HP. Look at new Honda 2 hp (weight 28 lbs, plenty of torque and quiet)
http://www.akmining.com/boat/honda_outboard_01.htm

New Mercury 2.5hp 4-stroke offers 'neutral' unlike my older 2-stroke Mercury 2.5hp (1998), but weighs 37.5 lbs.
http://www.gulfstreamshop.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=370

franklin j VIOLA

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'Esperanza'
SC 21 Sail 253
photo@violaphoto.com
www.violaphoto.com


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 Post subject: Outboard motors
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:50 am
Posts: 5
Location: Prescott, AZ
Hey guys, thanks for your helpful input about the motor mount loads, although the post from Gary reminded me of the minimalists I knew during my rock climbing days. Their ethics forbade the use of fixed anchors, which are artificial aids, much like the motor on a sailboat.

The truth is I have never owned a boat, although I have wanted one since I first saw the F-27, so I do not know how to sail or motor. Instead, my wife and I spent many years climbing the crags of the US with our son Richard, until he became too impaired. We are hoping that sailing will provide an adventure we can all enjoy.

It turned out that my dealer did order me a Cheata mount, so I got the phone number (561-747-6676) of the manufacturer, whose name is Peter Carras. He told me that none of these mounts has ever failed (broken), with only one case of the bar being bent in actual use. In tests, it took 200 pounds of dead weight to deform it.

Peter was adamant about the need for the 15" short shaft, properly positioning the mount (with the boat in the water), and using the SS rivets provided in his kit. However, he did not seem as strict about the weight limit as expected, so I settled on the 3.5 HP Mercury, which weighs in at 38 pounds.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:01 pm
Posts: 138
i use a 4hp johnson 2 stroke. but i have been told mine is modified to handle the extra power


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 Post subject: range and speed
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:52 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Treasure Island, Florida
My Mariner 2.5 2-cycle will do 6 knots for over an hour on its self contained tank of gas.

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Jerry Malone


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:01 pm
Posts: 138
I don't think my johnson 4 makes much more than 6-7 kts. But i also have full load of sails, 6 people, cat cabin, Beer, ice, cooler, and food on board. So not the lightest of loads.

But my johnson came with a 2.5 gallon external tank and fuel line, I think i could motor all day without running out of gas.

I usually just use the motor under bridges and in and out or ports. and i've used maby a gallon all season.


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 Post subject: Outboard Motor
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:18 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:13 am
Posts: 40
Location: Seabrook, TX
Link is to '98 Mariner 2.5hp 2-stroke outboard I rebuilt, painted cowling and added an Idle Fine-Tuner Control: 1/4 x 20 ss bolt (head cut off) with knob and rubber-tubbing that attaches to carburetor idle spring-screw. This control allows me to fine-tune the rpms (especially very slow as prop is always turning), without removing the cowling while underway. Cannot over 'torque' carburetor's idle spring-screw as ss bolt will 'spin' inside tubing if I try to tighten too tight :D

http://violaphoto.com/hobie21-mariner-motor.htm

On a personal note, Barneycat, I know you and 'Richard' will have as much fun on your 21SC as my Kids!

http://violaphoto.com/pod-08aug25-esperanza.htm
:D

franklin j VIOLA

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'Esperanza'
SC 21 Sail 253
photo@violaphoto.com
www.violaphoto.com


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 Post subject: Q & A
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:32 am 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:50 am
Posts: 5
Location: Prescott, AZ
OK, I admit it, I'm still pining after that 48 pound Yamaha 4 HP with an external fuel connection and reverse drive.

Understand that there is no need for more than 3 HP to drive the boat at hull speed, just do not want to fill the fuel tank of a hot motor from loose quart bottles (1/2 hour running time at full throttle), or reach out over the stern to back away from ramp and fall overboard.

Original parts list for 21 SC shows a battery tie down strap as part of cat cabin assembly, no. 70201011. What use for electricity is there besides lights? How was Hobie expecting 12 V battery to get recharged? It takes a Nissan 4 HP weighing 55 pounds to get an optional alternator.

Where do you put the external fuel tank for your 4 HP Johnson, Elfmaze?

Has anyone tried sleeping in hammocks strung between the wings under a tarp?

Thanks for your support, Viola. Taking care of my son Richard is a part-time career. It is not as much a matter of function as it is a lack of initiative. His illness and medication flatten out his creative urges.

However, every once in awhile he acts human, and then all the effort is worth it. The next day we start over again. I think this boat could be a great opportunity for him to socialize.

In fact, some sailing friends of ours from Milwaukee are planning to flying into Phoenix to go with us to watch the Lake Havasu Hobie regatta in early February.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:01 pm
Posts: 138
This season we only had the boat out three times. Of those we had the fuel tank sitting on the rear vinal tramp. Not the best of situations and the "crew" didn't like it much. Esp when a bit leaked and made the tramp slicker than wet ice.

The previous owner put the can in one of the side cabins, I like to use the cabin as dry storage. SOO for this season i will experiment with fitting it in the hull storage. POSSIBLY, making a small hole for the fuel line to come out and run just under the tarp. BUT i'm not a big fan of cutting the hulls. Most likely we will just disconnect it and store the line when not in use.

A battery tie down spot would be an interesting thing to look into. i have been wanting to add a sterio to the cabin doors. Currenly i have a Danforth anchor in the front cabin storage. so i don't believe there is much room in there.


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 Post subject: Gasoline Storage
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:13 am
Posts: 40
Location: Seabrook, TX
Elfmaze
I discourage you from storing the fuel container for your outboard in one of hulls of your 21 SC hulls.
Without going into detail, this is potentially very dangerous. :shock:
Don't hesitate to contact me offline. :)
franklin j VIOLA

ps- is there a way to contact Matt offline as well?

_________________
'Esperanza'
SC 21 Sail 253
photo@violaphoto.com
www.violaphoto.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:23 am
Posts: 564
Location: Lake Norman NC
I think again that 50 lbs of motor is a lot The first time wou hit a big wake that motor will go under the water. I carry extra fuel in a camping fuel bottle. I never fill the motor when running I have probably only ran out of gas once or twice in 20 years The outboard is a kicker to get you away from the dock or home when the wind dies, the motor on a hobie does not make it a pontoon cruise boat I can tell very little difference in boat speed from half throttle to full throtle

Get the motor you want but bigger is not always better and probably will not drive the boat any faster.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 199
Location: Massachusetts
I have a Honda 2hp four stroke on my 21SE (Same hulls as SC, wider crossbars) It was listed at 28 lbs. Drives the boat quite briskly, 6+ knots for about 1 1/2 hours on a tank (attached). It has a centrifugal clutch and will rotate 360 degrees so, no transmisssion to shift, very powerful reverse, ability to drive sideways, and simply go to idle to stop the prop. Perfect motor, IMHO, for this boat.
Mine is on the Cheetah bracket, welded to the crossbar. The weakpoint is the aluminum pin that goes through the bracket to raise the mounting tube up. Be very gentle with it, it bends easily, you may want to get a spare, especially with the over limit load of the big motor.
And check for tiller crossbar clearance at full rudder limits before you mount the motor. Off center is perfectly OK BTW.
Also have been storing gasoline in a small plastic can in the hulls for years, no problem. It would be dangerous if you had any electronics or electrics in there, we don't.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:01 pm
Posts: 138
Our motor does get swamped. Accually have a dead post about the problem. Even motoring briskly we risk the motor getting water crashing over the motor. Don't know if the weight of the motor would effect it much.


I also don't have a reverse. BUT i do have idle gear...


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