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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:01 pm 
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Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
Too bad your not Down Under Yak cause I could cut you a clear stick-on plactic window using Avery 2010 Stoneguard .35mm thickness & used for sign protection which sticks good and would reinforce your old window I reckon just fine. If you know a signwriter, you could try that.
If not just pick one listed earlier in this thread and find a friendly sailmaker or upholsterer or just do it yourself. I dare say you could even glue a new window in place with a proprietry glue and hand stitch it double strength. I think I would go about 2mm thickness but you can measure the old one near the rips and add a little more...Pirate


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:37 am 
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Location: South Florida
Good comment, Yakaholic. Hobie is in the sail boat business specifically, not just the boat business. Your question of Hobie is certainly legitimate.

Maybe I am missing something here, but that sail window looks pretty well shot. Taping it seems like futile attempt to keep it going. Also, there is some thing called "style"--who wants to sail around in something that looks like it dredged up from the dumpster?

Keith

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I sail: Key Biscayne, Everglades to Cape Romano, Ft Desoto, Cedar Key

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:24 am 
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Chekika wrote:
Good comment, Yakaholic. Hobie is in the sail boat business specifically, not just the boat business. Your question of Hobie is certainly legitimate.

Maybe I am missing something here, but that sail window looks pretty well shot. Taping it seems like futile attempt to keep it going. Also, there is some thing called "style"--who wants to sail around in something that looks like it dredged up from the dumpster?

Keith


Exactly!

Well, so far, excluding the films that are not reinforced I found 4 choices.

Laminated X-Ply Polyester Film
T-725 - Xply 4mil
T-725 - Xply 6mil
C-254 - Xply 5mil
C-204 - Xply 5mil

All have reinforcing thread and all are used in sails. They are all similarly priced.

Again, maybe Hobie could shed some light on the proper material. Or contact the party that makes the sails for them for that info.

"Competent" sail loft? Wouldn't know a good one from a bad one. I bet no one at any sail loft has has ever seen an Island sail before. My guess is that they can't treat it like a wind surfing sail and that the Island sail is unique with it's over large window and roller furling characteristics.

Hobie insists I don't need to buy a new sail and that it can be repaired - so then what is the correct material?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:39 am 
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Location: Dallas, TX
All I was saying is that a competent sail loft will be able to figure out what the material is. Making sails is what a loft does. It's they only thing they do. They have to know these things. It is not rocket science, but it does involve some expertise.

If you walk into a loft and they need input form Hobie, turn around and walk out.

And it was not a slam on Hobie. On that you are just wrong.

As to your accusations, if I were being unresponsive and unfriendly, I wouldn't have chimed in in the first place. I would have left you to struggle with the problem. But since I work in a business where sails are built (Mariner has a full loft building sails for boats to 50 ft) and probably have more experience in it than most, I thought my input might be appreciated. I guess I was wrong.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:01 am 
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Location: Florida
The Dog wrote:
All I was saying is that a competent sail loft will be able to figure out what the material is.


Why does anybody have to "figure out" the correct material?

Doesn't Hobie even know what is in their own sails?

In an above post I have listed 4 possible material choices - 3 different weights.

I'm asking for information from Hobie and your saying in effect Hobie can't help "we don't know" go find a "competent sail loft" instead. "We are in boat business not sail business."

A better, friendlier and more meaningful response would be something like: "Yes, Our engineers have confirmed that the best replacment window material is X-thick and or this type & quality."

I keep saying I might want to repair the sail myself
So knowing the correct material to use I would find really helpful.

Hey, I may be the only one now with sail failure; but I predict many others will follow. So Hobie might as well devise repair tape kits and plan for responding to customers.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:24 am 
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Location: Dallas, TX
Yakaholic,

All I tried to do is help out while Hobie was closed.

I don't speak for Hobie. I work for Mariner - not Hobie.

I don't personally know what the material is - that's not information Hobie shares with it's dealers. I can't just look it up.

I know Joe in our sail loft could tell us, but he was gone for the weekend by the time I realized that you wanted to know specifics. And I can't ask him now because I'm not at work - it's my day off.

I missed the part where you said you wanted to repair it yourself. My mistake.

I really did try to help. I'm sorry that you don't see it that way, but that really is the way it should be seen.

I'm sorry I couldn't be more help.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:28 am 
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Location: Dallas, TX
Yakaholic,

Matt should be in the office in about another 30 minutes (11am east coast time).

Please call and ask what the material is you should use. That will be the best way to get the info that you need.

(877) 462-4350


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:44 am 
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Location: Florida
The Dog wrote:
Yakaholic,

All I tried to do is help out while Hobie was closed.

I don't speak for Hobie. I work for Mariner - not Hobie.

I don't personally know what the material is - that's not information Hobie shares with it's dealers. I can't just look it up..


I'm sorry if I sounded harsh. I do believe you were trying to help. 8)

I don't mind waiting for someone at Hobie to find out during normal business hours and then get back with the info.

What got me agitated was the implication that Hobie had no such info and that someone else had to "figure out" what to do with the sail.

$415 sails don't grow on trees and repair vs. replace is an important decision. No reason to repair it wrong or waste money on an inferior repair.

$415 is a lot of money while on a budget.

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:45 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:40 am
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Location: Dallas, TX
The following are dealers in Flordia for Chinook Sailing products. Chinook is where we get our sail repair tape.

ACE PERFORMER
16842 MCGREGOR BLVD.
FORT MEYERS, FL
33908
USA
(239) 489-3513
aceperformer@hotmail.com

ALL WET SPORTS
8550 Beach Blvd.
JACKSONVILLE, FL
32216
USA
(904) 646-9887
allwetsports@aol.com

CALEMA BOARDSAILING
2550 N. BANANA RIVER DR
MERRITT ISLAND, FL
32952
USA
(321) 453-3223
tinho@calema.com

EVOLVE SPORTS
2000 S. FEDERAL HWY
FT. LAUDERDALE, FL
33316
USA
(954) 523-7778
helga@water-play.com

ISLAND STYLE WINDSURFING
2433 N. TAMIAMI TRAIL
SARASOTA, FL
34234
USA
(941) 954-1009
islandstylewatersports@gmail.com

LIQUID SURF AND SAIL
158 MIRACLE STRIP PARKWAY S.E.
FORT WALTON, FL
32548
USA
(850) 664-5731
rnabors65@yahoo.com

WATERPLAY
2750 SW 26TH AVE SUITE D
COCONUT GROVE, FL
33133
USA
(305) 860-0888
jim@liquidsurfandsail.com

SANDY PT PROGRESSIVE SPTS
3090 SOUTH RIDGEWOOD AVENUE
SOUTH DAYTONA, FL
32119
USA
(386) 756-7564
data@progressivesports.com

WATERSPORTS WEST
12900 WALSINGHAM ROAD
LARGO, FL
33774
USA
(727) 517-7000
steve@watersportswest.com

http://www.chinooksailing.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=6_65&products_id=150
Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:09 am 
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Location: Dallas, TX
Yakaholic wrote:
I'm sorry if I sounded harsh. I do believe you were trying to help. 8)


I admit to being a bit shocked at your responses, but fairly certain that it was just mis-communication.

Quote:
I don't mind waiting for someone at Hobie to find out during normal business hours and then get back with the info.

What got me agitated was the implication that Hobie had no such info and that someone else had to "figure out" what to do with the sail.


That was NEVER the implication. The ever-persistent problem with electronic communication rears its ugly head yet again. It seems to be more of a problem when I'm in a hurry to get a message across.

I will confess to believing that you've just worn your sail out. The pictures of the damage are fairly consistent with UV rot. I've experienced the same with my windsurfing sails. Sail tape has gone a long way to keeping me on the water. I keep a roll in my kit. In a pinch, I have used high-quality packing tape. And the spectra threads in the panel are doing exactly what they were designed to do - stopping the tears from spreading.

I also believe that you could probably have your sail repaired more quickly than the time it would take to get a new one. Like Mariner, I suspect your local yak shop doesn't keep spare AI sails laying around. So lead time is at least a week for a new sail. Lofts on the other hand are traditionally not that busy this time of the year. Since you comment that the dacron is still sound, that seems like a reasonable solution.

But then I'm not a sailmaker. And I have not laid eyes or hands on your sail. It may be toast.

If you would like, I can ask Joe if he knows of a reputable loft in your area. I'm back in the shop tomorrow. Or I can even call him. Or you can call Mariner and ask for Joe.

Quote:
$415 sails don't grow on trees and repair vs. replace is an important decision. No reason to repair it wrong or waste money on an inferior repair.

$415 is a lot of money while on a budget.

Thanks.


Amen, brother... Amen.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:40 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8617
Location: Oceanside, California
AI window notes:

Why a window? Visibility / Safety.

Why not Plastipane? Distorts under load. Only used in smaller windows (very small).

Why not a smaller window? Visibility / Safety.

Why Mylar? Stable to keep sail shape.

We use the X-Ply reinforced Mylar for best durability. This is more susceptible to UV, abrasion or luffing damage than Dacron, but a compromise that has been well considered.

Avoid storing in the sun.

Avoid folding / creasing.

Avoid excessive luffing (flagging). This is a primary reason for Mylar failure.

The Mylar we use appears to be 6 Mil.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:12 am
Posts: 419
Location: Florida
Matt

Thanks for the sail info update.

I don't want to buy wrong stuff or have a sail maker talk me into using the wrong material.

I trust and value Hobies expertise & opinion! - otherwise I wouldn't be here.

I have contacted & am waiting a quote for repairs from a sail maker/fixer.

Some of the other suggestions here of Avery 2010 StoneGuard sheeting or Avery 900 Super Cast or monofilm repair tape were also helpful. Will explore those.

Will post the results.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:20 pm 
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Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
I am going to cut and apply a stoneguard window on my new sail anyway Yak and will report how it stays stuck and reacts to the forces applied to it when sailing, furling etc. I reckon the extra layer will reinforce the window sufficiently to get many more years out of the window than we apparently can expect, but I am only summising at this point. Good luck with the project...Pirate


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:47 pm 
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Location: Punta Gorda, FL
Yakaholic wrote:

$415 is a lot of money while on a budget.

Thanks.


True enough, just don't let any powerboaters hear you complaining about that 41 cent per hour operating cost. ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2366
Location: Escondido
Hobie sells a liquid UV protectant. I wonder how effective it would be on the Mylar window. It probably wouldn't hurt anyway.8)


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