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 Post subject: Righting 21 SC
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:18 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:13 am
Posts: 40
Location: Seabrook, TX
Greetings Hobie 21SE/SC Forum
This summer I purchased a 1997 Hobie 21 SC (Sail# 253 / renamed her 'Esperanza') and love sailing her with my three Children. I have read many of your postings and find them very helpful!

As a former merchant mariner and full-time 'tinkerer', I am constantly modifying the rigging:
1st removing the console (weight/space) and replacing it with a semi-rigid cooler for water/gatorade/fruit/snickers and hours of 'flying'.
2nd unlacing the 'tramps' from the outrigger seat frames and filling the 'space' with nine (9) 2.5" diameter pool 'noodles'. Each foam noodle is rated as 200lbs of lift. Re-laced tramps to contain noodles. Result are even more 'comfortable' outriggers seats that are virtually impossible to 'sink'.
3rd was adding a second trapeze rig so two can 'fly' together.

Sailing our 21SC is like a Cadillac vs our 'hotrod' (mint 1981 Prindle 16) which is more like driving my first vehicle ('87 Chevy LUV truck).

I am concerned about 'righting' the 21SC as I am a catamaran 'pusher' and the opportunity to capsize 'Esperanza' will eventually arrive. So after my lengthy 'Texan' introduction, does anyone have experience with 'Righting' a Hobie 21SC (sans outboard/with/without console)?

In addition to the her 'floating' outrigger seats and my weight (225 lbs), 'Esperanza' does have shroud 'extenders' as well as a righting water bag (+ 200 lbs) I created utilizing a 3:1 block & tackle.

Thanks for any advice/comments and for a wonderful Forum!

fj VIOLA

ps- I also created a simple mast 'stepping' rig allowing me to do such 'alone' and without use of ginpole. Photos of all available upon request.

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'Esperanza'
SC 21 Sail 253
photo@violaphoto.com
www.violaphoto.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:55 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:23 pm
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Location: San Diego, CA
Greetings, F.J.

I have like a million questions, but I would love to see the pictures first, probably half a million of those questions will be answered by them.

Thanks in advance.

Ps: those "noodles" cannot possibly have 200 lb flotation each, maybe you mean they can hold a 200 lb person afloat?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:47 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
You can easily right the 21SC with a 200 lb crew and a water bag (shrouds extended). I was almost able to do it alone at 180 lbs and used a crew of about 100 lb to easily right. No wind advantage... this was a test in zero wind.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:13 am
Posts: 40
Location: Seabrook, TX
Matt
Thanks for the 'thumbs-up' testimonial! :D
McGyver
You are correct re: noodles can hold a 200 lb person afloat, though volume to weight ratio (200 lbs person -vs- 200 lbs lead block) makes true measurement a long winded math experiment. With nine (9) noodles inside the outrigger seat 'void' it will not sink and will probably add 'lift' -vs- dead weight on a capsized 21 SC.
I will add photos soon.
Thanks again to both of you!
franklin j VIOLA

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'Esperanza'
SC 21 Sail 253
photo@violaphoto.com
www.violaphoto.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:23 pm
Posts: 96
Location: San Diego, CA
Hello fj,

could you post all the pics of your boat? As you can surmise from my handle: "McGyver", I love improving my cat.

It never ocurred to me to remove the cabin. I believe it weighs some 40 lbs, which is some 7% of the total boat (not a lot), so I always saw it as a convenient place to carry things. Problem is, as you probably deduced, those "things" have some weight too. And as, per Peter Principle as applied to sailboats, things will fill up any available space.

I love the cooler, not so much for ice and beers, (in Mission Bay we stop at the club for beers) but because it is the highest, dryest place in the boat to carry wallets and purses.

I'm going to do the exercise of removing everything from the cabin (volume-wise, it's almost all life preservers) and stuffing it in the hulls.

As per the overflow, I thought of those big yellow bags they use for life preservers. Weighs nothing, can be shock-corded to the forward trampoline.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:23 pm
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Location: San Diego, CA
One thing I didn't consider is the tent. I have one, never put it up, seen it in pictures.

I plead ignorance in this, since I've never used it, but if I were to design a tent for the SC I would use the tramps in the trailering position.

It would give you a lot more headroom, allowing you to use an inflatable queen-size inflatable bed (some 40 bucks at Big 5).

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 Post subject: Righting 21 SC
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:13 am
Posts: 40
Location: Seabrook, TX
Matt
We finally baptized 21 SC last Sunday. She went over in spectacular fashion with captain and crew leading the charge.

As advertised, the shroud extenders worked brilliantly in bringing the hull further outward and making righting the 21 SC much easier. Though it's not easy to climb up on hull to release pin from adjuster.

Once upright, however, the addition of +20 inches to shroud length was 'spooky' as mast laid way over to leeward. We were afraid to jibe the boat with so much 'lean' and tacking was not going to happen as main and jib acted like a big gennaker. So I hiked out on both trapeze wires to counter-balance while crew re-pinned shroud.

Although not in the same adjuster hole as opposite shroud, it allowed us to tack so slack was in shroud and then re-pin it again to correct adjuster hole/length.

Probably not the 'textbook' method, so any guidance you may provide would be sincerely appreciated as 21 SC will be dunked again as the water warms up. :D

Thanks
franklin j VIOLA

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'Esperanza'
SC 21 Sail 253
photo@violaphoto.com
www.violaphoto.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:38 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
Climb up the mast / sail to reach the upper hull.

Yes, tack and re-pin the loose shroud as low as possible.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: Righting 21 SC
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:44 pm
Posts: 106
Location: cincinatti, OH
super interested in your stepping system. I just welded up the ultimate trailer...pictures coming soon!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Righting 21 SC
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:13 am
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Location: Seabrook, TX
Air is still 'cool & crisp', but sun came out Friday so I finally installed Righting Pole to our 21 SC :D
Key to the whole design was suggestion of Forum regular Steve Pesce to use a Chinook windsurfing mechanical universal-joint so the Righting Pole folds up flush to the trampoline underside and out of the way! :wink:

http://www.violaphoto.com/hobie21-righting-pole.htm

This righting pole came with the boat .. believe it to be a "Rick White Power Righting System"
http://www.catsailor.com/power_righter.html
and appears to tie to the dolpin striker with a bunch of hatchet knots :roll:

Prior to final installation, I used Zinc primer on the aluminum 'mounting plate' and then applied an 'orange' enamel final coat. The plate's "V" was cut/filed to fit up snug to the dolphin-striker stainless nut, as well as on 'top' of the stainless washer. Stainless 1/4" washers were placed at each rivet hole (all lubricated with never-seize) to level the mounting plate on the crossbar.

5/16" nylon lines run from end of the Righting Pole through Harken bullet blocks at each corner of the crossbar (already on the dolphin striker bar), and then back through Harken pivot Cam blocks (riveted to righting pole 24" from its base). Reckoned use of Cam blocks (-vs- knots) would be easier to adjust Righting Pole 'angle' to hulls (60-70 degrees to upright hull) when righting boat, as well as for re-stowing to get back underway. 8)

Ends of the righting-line now go back to the bullet block mounts.

The Righting Pole is just over 7 ft long, so it does not reach the rear cross-bar. However, a 3/8" bungee loop comes out of the nylon end cap
so I was able to secure the Righting Pole end with a 1/4" nylon line & ss clip to the rear crossbar.

It's time to FLY! :D

franklin j VIOLA

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'Esperanza'
SC 21 Sail 253
photo@violaphoto.com
www.violaphoto.com


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 Post subject: Re: Righting 21 SC
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:02 pm
Posts: 37
Location: Toms River NJ
f j Viola wrote:
As a former merchant mariner and full-time 'tinkerer', I am constantly modifying the rigging:


Cool who did you sail with? Deck or engine?

I was MEBA member, sailed on the M/V asphalt commander (now up on a beach in Bangladesh). It was a vessel notorious for being a nightmare :lol: .

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H21SE spi 1988
H3.5 1975


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 Post subject: Re: Righting 21 SC
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:45 pm
Posts: 16
Just want to add my opinion of righting poles. I have the Hobie 21/22/23 ( full up 730 pounds) and i weigh only 170 on a bad day. My first pole was 11 feet long and did not work. I went to a fourteen foot pole, 2.5 dia, 1/8 wall thickness. It works and I have the video to prove it. I was not able to do it by myself. My crew pulled on a standard righting rope and over she came. My crew was my objective brother was races all of the time. He was very convinced that righting the boat in heavy weather would be even easier. Of note is that I do not have a mast float. To me it looks like the mast is sinking all of the time but I'm just worrying for nothing according to my brother. The mast came up easily once we pulled on the righting line. So there you have it, now I have to prove it to the racers who will not let me race in thier regattas.


Mydaddycat


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 Post subject: Re: Righting 21 SC
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:01 pm
Posts: 14
seems to me that having extra flotation in the wings will make the boat MORE difficult to right from capsized, since the angle of the hulls will be further from vertical. With no flotation in my wings, the boat floats just fine on her side. I actually wish it would float a little lower, to make it easier to right.
-Jimbo


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