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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:46 am
Posts: 1089
Location: eureka,california
The 21 was a good design but needs to be modernized to hold speed up wind. I could run with the 21 on the bay and keep pace on my 18. The collapsing beam is ok but still a pain. But if you wanted to put time in and have modern sails cut for it it would be a pretty kicking ride. Also I'd want to put a self tacker on it to simplify the front of the boat.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2553
Location: Jersey Shore
Quote:
I would like to have a Tiger .... family friendly and single handed friendly...plus a Tiger will most likely have a spin included, which I want.


Family friendly? I guess it depends on your family. The Tiger is a full-blown race boat. Those two characteristics are generally mutually exclusive.

Single handed? Probably not easily in anything over about 15mph. Plus it would be a pretty heavy singler hander at about 400lb.

sm


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:36 pm 
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Location: eureka,california
SRM
He single hands a H-18 with a square top main and custom jib already. With the furling jib on the tiger over 15 , and self tacker under 15, add the wings and your off. Also there is a small spin option for light crews F-18 . The adjustability in the main can really depower the sail. I can make mine flatter than a board now that I understand the boat.

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Rich Vilvens
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 Post subject: Tornado
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:00 am
Posts: 45
Location: Northern VA
At the higher end of beachcat performance, it really comes down to the skipper :-) On my H-20, I have beaten N-20s, and barely beaten H-16s :-( Back when we had some top-caliber guys sailing a variety of boats around here, the old single-trap Tornados, P-19s, H-20s and N6.0s were very close. A spin-equipped Marstrom Tornado will walk on a H-20, but usually ends up pretty close to a N-20 (assuming an Olympic skipper isn't on board). If you are a very good skipper, and they aren't, you can stay close upwind on a H-20, but they are pulling away. Downwind, with no chute, you're dead.
If you're looking for an ultimate ride, I would lean towards the Nacra 20, because they are cheaper with less expensive parts, and almost as fast as the T. A Marstrom T is an absolute work of art, but you pay for it, and you need an artist to fix it. An H-20 with a snuffer kit is a heck of a performance bargain, and a BIG step up from an 18. You could get one to train on and sell it for what you paid for it while you wait for that good deal on the ultimate ride :-)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 pm
Posts: 1662
Location: Northfield Minnesota
I don't own a H20, I sailed one at the NAC in Yankton last year. I liked the boat. Very predictable, it can be driven very hard, and it is super stable. It pulled out of some scenarios that I was sure we were dead going into. Like going dead downwind in 25mph+ winds, and smashing into the back of some easily six foot waves and not pitching. Light air the H20 is great too.

My complaints are pretty lminimal. For one its a tank, or at least it feels like it on the boat. The steering sucks, although I think some of that is remedied by using the EPO blades. It beats the crap out of the crew. Running the front of a H20 is on par, or requires more effort than running the front of an F-18.

If I didn't love having a singlehand boat the H20 would be real high on my list of boats to own, although after having a spin boat for the last two years I'd be hard pressed to give that up.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Shasta Lake/ Redding, CA
Once again, very good information. thanks guys...ok I've decided on the Miracle for a step up boat for sure, I still want a Marstrom T one of these days though, Nacra sounds like a option to if the price is right.

ultimately, what I want to do with it (over time) is, self tack it, square head it, and chute it, because there are no H20 fleets up here and it will make the boat more family friendly(git rid of that cable across the tramp) AND single handler friendly, Right? uuuhhh...ehhmmm... and maybe make some custom WINGS for it!!! I just love wings on beach cats.
I know...cuckoo bird...

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Wes
98 Miracle 20 + magnum wings


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:52 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:46 am
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Location: eureka,california
Good for you Wes.
Let me know if you need any help on the set up. Also we can get you a nice spin at a good price. Also we can get the measurments that Mark and Tim are running to spin out their 20's. And Get a SNU for the snuffer they work great.
Rich

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:46 pm
Posts: 1468
Location: Santa Cruz
I have 2 that I'm brokering. Both in great shape. One even has one of those sqtop aftermaket mains. They're in the 5 G range. Email me if interested.

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 Post subject: modified 20
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:00 am
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Location: Northern VA
The square top would probably be a good addition, but taking area off the jib for a self-tacker would hurt, especially upwind and tight reaches where the 20 has an edge on some other boats. A lot of people have replaced the wire cable with a specta line with loops; snap shackles on the jib blocks let you move the blocks in and out for heavy air. Not an adjustment you can make from the wire, but good enough for distance racing or fun boats (or in between races). The spectra is MUCH easier on the knees. This also gets rid of some extra spaghetti; with the chute you probably don't need the barberhaulers either.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:29 pm
Posts: 228
Location: North Bend, WA
I just purchased a 21SE and have not had it out on the water yet :( I did not see it rigged and have been working the last two weekends to rig, de-rig, rig, buy, de-rig, etc. Hopefully I will have out this weekend if I can rig all sails before Friday.... :idea: I purchased the 21SE because of price, wings, spinnaker and weight (heavy) believe it or not. I have a '76 tornado single trap without spinnaker. My wife will not go on the boat the last 10 years, because she has had all the excitement that she can stand. I am not sure I want to take the kids out for the excitement yet either.... :evil: therefore, I went for the more manageable 21SE that will be family and friend compatible, ie 4-6 adults, still fast, heavy enough to not accelerate to breakneck speeds with a little puff, can still fly a spinnaker and be non-sailor friendly type boat. It even has a motor for those late night dying winds. I just want to stay relatively dry in the freezing northwest water and enjoy the cadillac feeling :mrgreen:

I cannot compare the Tiger or H-18 and therefore will leave that to everyone else.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Shasta Lake/ Redding, CA
Is your 21 an SE? and are the hulls all white? did it also come with the cheeta motor mount and 2hp honda outboard? was it complete with spinnaker, newer all black mesh tramp on a trailex trailer? And did you buy it in Oregon?

just curious, I was looking at one not to long ago like yours it sounds like.

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98 Miracle 20 + magnum wings


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:29 pm
Posts: 228
Location: North Bend, WA
yep thats the one. He never changed the title and therefore I needed to go thru the original owners father to sign an affidavit of lost title as his son was lost at sea. The motor mount was home made, but appears to be strong and the motor cranked on second pull. Amazing! Other than that, I think the owner just sailed the boat until enough things needed repair or replacement and gave up. There was nothing major, but the little things are showing themselves. I was lowering the mast the other day and the mast ball stripped out and almost killed us. The mast was mostly down but still scary when something lets go. I should be up and running this weekend. Nice boat that looks rarely used, but all original. Most likely all rigging was original along with all spinnaker equipment.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Shasta Lake/ Redding, CA
Cool, that was one STEAL of a deal!

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Wes
98 Miracle 20 + magnum wings


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