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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:18 pm 
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Sorry to disagree with you, SRM, but the shape of the rudders (EPO black) as they come from the factory is dreadful.

http://picasaweb.google.com/jordiheguil ... 2662984882

What you see there is the standard rudder after being longboarded with 80, 100, and 220 grit, then painted. You can still see ridges and hollow areas. I doubt that a gifted amateur cannot do a better job.

If I were to race this boat, I would have it professionally faired.

BTW, the paint I used, appliance epoxy, has spent a year under the California sun and looks like the first day. I used the same for the Comptip and it has stayed put, even on the aluminum sailtrack.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:47 am 
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McGyver wrote:
Sorry to disagree with you, SRM, but the shape of the rudders (EPO black) as they come from the factory is dreadful.


You can not possibly have actually seen an EPO then, maybe only the black plastic PCG? ... At least not the current EPO2. They are beautiful, perfectly shaped foils. The molds were made from the original EPO (which is quite nice) but digitized and perfected. ZERO complaints from users on the foil shape.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:33 pm 
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Matt, the rudders came with the boat, they were black, and I assumed were EPO.

Sorry for my mistake.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:18 am 
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Just for information purposes:

What is the differference between a EPO, a "black plastic PCG".and and a white plasticwhatever?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:39 am 
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I think it's the stiffness, and foil shape...but could be wrong. Now how does having a stiffer rudder help you, I don't know. My white plastic seem to do fine turning the boat.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:46 am 
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Over-all rudder history:

H21SE came with a fiberglass blade that was a larger profile than the standard Hobie blade. H21SC came with plastic blades of the standard profile.

Fiberglass blades are stiffer and have thicker / consistant foil shapes which is better for smooth helm control and top speeds. Plastic blades will stall sooner under heavy turning loads. This is a "ventilation" (air pocket forms along the foil) and can cause a loss of steering. You have to straighten the helm to clear the air and then steer with less load on the rudder / slow down the turn. Proper rudder alignment and helm control are more critical.

Injected plastic blades:

In general injected plastic rudders have imperfect foils as the plastics shrink when cooling. Often they have a slight concave near the trailing edge and are bit fatter along the trailing edge. They are the most durable blade for recreational use. Less expensive by half.

ABS - White, Original H14 and early H16, UV issues, Brittle over time. Shiny surface, Yellows with age. Not strong enough for the Hobie 16.
Lexan - White or Black, Stiffer and stronger, but had some issues with internal voids. Swirl / fiber looking surface.
PCG - Black, Poly Carbonate glass filled (Similar to Lexan) Better reliability in molding process.
Nylon - White, Strong and reliable, bit better over all UV, Age, Foil and smoother surface.

Fiberglass Blades:

H21SE Blade - Glass. White gel coat surface. Stiff and consistent foil shape. Larger blade.

EPO - Originally made by O'brien water ski division of Coleman when Hobie was owned by Coleman. Black, Thicker foil was more forgiving to helm than the flatter plastic foil. Bit thick in the training edge. Very durable as glass blades go. The EPO became unavailable when Coleman sold off the water sports divisions.

EPO2 - After many years we re-did the EPO. Digitized the foil to perfect it and fixed the trailing edge. Really nice rudders.

Racer Blades - Between the EPO and EPO2 we built fiberglass blades. They were nice, but a bit thinner than the EPO foil.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:10 pm 
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Thanks for the great history lesson.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:53 pm 
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I have a question, Matt.

Counting all the rudders:

ABS - White, Original H14 and early H16, UV issues, Brittle over time. Shiny surface, Yellows with age. Not strong enough for the Hobie 16.
Lexan - White or Black, Stiffer and stronger, but had some issues with internal voids. Swirl / fiber looking surface.
PCG - Black, Poly Carbonate glass filled (Similar to Lexan) Better reliability in molding process.
Nylon - White, Strong and reliable, bit better over all UV, Age, Foil and smoother surface.

Fiberglass Blades:

H21SE Blade - Glass. White gel coat surface. Stiff and consistent foil shape. Larger blade.

EPO - Originally made by O'brien water ski division of Coleman when Hobie was owned by Coleman. Black, Thicker foil was more forgiving to helm than the flatter plastic foil. Bit thick in the training edge. Very durable as glass blades go. The EPO became unavailable when Coleman sold off the water sports divisions.

EPO2 - After many years we re-did the EPO. Digitized the foil to perfect it and fixed the trailing edge. Really nice rudders.

Racer Blades - Between the EPO and EPO2 we built fiberglass blades. They were nice, but a bit thinner than the EPO foil.

Is the Hobie 16 a One Design class?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:38 am 
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McGyver wrote:
I have a question, Matt.

/snip . . .

Is the Hobie 16 a One Design class?


Absolutely. The 16's original rudders came from the 14 (ABS). They didn't prove to be up to the task, so the class rules were changed to allow rudders of the same profile, with thickness and weight restrictions, but made of any material. All of the other rudders fit within the class rules.

The plastic rudders are pefectly fine for the vast majority of sailors - they're relatively inexpensive and durable. The racer and EPO rudders give better control at higher speeds, but at a considerable price increase.

You're also condensing nearly 40 years of class development into a paragraph. There have been many minor changes to the 16 since its introduction that if you lumped them all together, would be a major change.

However, you could sit a 1970's era boat next to a 2009 and you would still know that they're both Hobie 16s

This situation is no different (and in some cases even more restrictive) than any other one-design class.


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