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 Post subject: Re: Tandem AII Wish List
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 4:57 pm 
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Location: Venice, Florida
Good post denizen.

The spray skirt and tramps are great...but knowing me, I'd have em full of fish hooks in no time. Let's leave em as options. I've already snagged ama shock cords, mesh pockets, and sheet line. :roll:

Now you know (only part of the reason) why I sign off...
:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Tandem AII Wish List
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 6:45 pm 
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Location: Bairnsdale, Victoria Australia
denizen wrote:
A tandem AI made drier either from spray deflectors like Kayaking Bob's design or with a bow with a built in rigid shape that splits the swells and keeps the cockpit fairly dry.
I like the ideas posted earlier - the front seat compartment being flat bottomed for gear storage for expeditions or strong enough for a place to stand. and the Tramps coming standard. I don't care if it's appropriately longer and heavier up to 20 feet (I have a trailer for my AI that I could adapt)...as long as there is a HD cart with fat tires than can allow it to be pulled a good distance across beach sand.


.........................and what about the laser beams and harpoon guns denizen?...Pirate

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 Post subject: Re: Tandem AII Wish List
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:44 pm 
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Location: Laguna Niguel, CA
will you be able to sail the tandem AI solo. If you couldnt sail it solo that would be a big draw back.

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 Post subject: Re: Tandem AII Wish List
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 10:05 pm 
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Location: Hawaii, Big Island
If this is intended as an expedition yak as well as fishing.

Get rid of the tankwell and have a large after hatch that is hinged at the stern end so you can put your catch in there. and have a alternative expedition hatch that is "bubbled" so dry bags for expeditions can be stored INSIDE the hull, thus making using of wasted space for a tankwell bottom, not to mention lowering load CG when you use the hull in yak mode only. Note. This also supports a soft sided cooler concept inside the hull.

I believe the yak should be at least 18 feet long. Your not looking for swamp manuvering here. Your looking at open ocean/big lake sailing.

And get a rudder that does the job. You don't need a "twist & stow" if the rudder is easily remobvable for transport. The design of which will probably give you much better underway results than the twist & stow that is definited short in aspect ratio.

Cant the rod holders at 45 degrees!!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Put at least one rod holder tube ala pro angler,down both sides so the both the rear and fwd operators can remove rods (adjustment is by depth of insertion)

That my $.02. You want my $5K suggestion I get a freebie yak for me and the frau to test and keep! :lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Tandem AII Wish List
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:03 pm 
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Location: Venice, Florida
:D Another great post AD:

A bubbled (egg shaped hatch) behind the cockpit is a great idea. If the front of that hatch was squared-off to make a firm seat-back it would be even better. This improvement would provide: 1) a larger/covered storage area; 2) a higher/rounded-off hatch cover that sheds water making it a more water-tight seal; 3) lower center of gravity; 4) easier loading; and, 5) better access to hull/stern area.

Your other ideas are great too Dan.

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 Post subject: Re: Tandem AII Wish List
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 6:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
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Location: South Florida
I've got mixed feeling about the space in the stern area. I want to be able to put my cooler in that area. I also want a much better hatch than the current, leak-prone "Twist-n-Seal" hatch cover. I would think the Hobie engineers are capable of coming up w/ an auto-draining hatch cover w/ a surrounding moat (some variation of the bow hatch would be ok) while retaining space for a serious cooler to keep supplies, fish, or whatever. The space for the cooler or Hobie live-well could be flat, but a slightly slanted area w/ scupper holes might work fine (ala Hobie Revolution).

AlohaDan, excellent post! A much improved rudder on the tandem seems a minimal requirement.

Keith

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 Post subject: Re: Tandem AII Wish List
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:41 am 
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Location: Venice, Florida
Keith (Chekika),

Re: Cooler Storage

Since the cooler is the heaviest single piece I was hoping the front cockpit would be designed with a flat floor to accomodate the cooler and other big items like a table, chair, tent, etc. Moving these heavy items forward would center the load and reduce drag caused by the stern being so low in the water that rudder lines are submerged. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Tandem AII Wish List
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:06 am 
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Good point, Polecat. Of course, I was thinking my wife might occupy that front seat occasionally.

Keith

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 Post subject: Re: Tandem AII Wish List
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:20 am 
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Location: Venice, Florida
Keith,

A rear bubbled hatch should be able to carry a big cooler and extra gear under cover when the front seat is occupied.

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 Post subject: Re: Tandem AII Wish List
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:38 am 
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Maybe it could be a custom designed rear cooler to fit the Hobie with bubble hatch perfectly to maximize the use of space.


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 Post subject: Re: Tandem AII Wish List
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:54 pm 
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Location: Venice, Florida
If the current est. length of 18' 7" is correct, then either the front hatch/rear cargo area, or both, will have to be reduced in size.

IMHO, reconfiguring the area behind the cockpit is the best way to maximize storage space. I'd replace the cargo and stern hatch areas with a bubbled (egg-shaped) aerodynamic hatch behind the seat running to the stern. It'd look really cool--like a race car with the forward end rounded off at shoulder heigth to form a firm backrest. The hatch sides would extend the gunwales up to the hatch cover. The hatch cover would start near the highest, widest point, have an opening big enough for large cooler, then taper down in heigth & width to a rounded end near the stern. The totally removable lid would be latched down (twice at the top end, twice along each side, and once at aft end). Its heigth, rounded shape, and downward slant would not only be cool, it would be the best design to shed water quickly, provide dry storage, and be easy to load. One large, covered, storage space is better than 2 smaller ones. It provides more utility and versatility, and eliminates loading gear through a small hatch opening that's so far aft there's not much room for anything anyway. Also, if the forward end of the new hatch incorporated/attached to the x-bar it would strengthen rigidity in all directions from that point.

The Rudder Control Arms, and rudder line tubes, should be outside the hull for easy access and adjustment--maybe clipped to an accessory rail at cockpit heigth.

Lots to consider/overcome, but a great, sexy looking, functional feature that's sure to sell boats--and that's what its all about. It would certainly sell me!!!

Thanks for listening. :mrgreen:

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Last edited by Polecat on Sat May 16, 2009 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tandem AII Wish List
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:15 am 
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Location: South Florida
Polecate--I would guess the hull interior storage on the tandem AI will be much more than the single. The length seems to be settled on about 18'7". I would like to see the tandem keep the same width as the single (27.5"), in order to keep the weight down. However, my guess is the width will likely be 30+ inches. Hobie's tandem kayaks, the Oasis and Outfitter are 33" and 34", respectively. The bow and stern surface areas may be reduced some, as you suggest, but making the stern hatch cover part of the useable stern surface (rather than as a separate area as on the current AI) will alleviate that problem a bit. Designing the stern upper surface like a Le Mans race car is interesting--but, I doubt you could ever fit a hard-sided cooler inside such a space (a cooler like you and I use here in "hot" south Florida.)

If Hobie is making the tandem AI as more than a day-sailer, i.e., for use on extended camping trips, they need to provide a space to carry a significant, hard-sided cooler.

Keith

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 Post subject: Re: Tandem AII Wish List
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:16 am 
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Yeah Keith,

I'd like to keep the width at 27.5" too for weight, speed, and cost reasons, but increasing load capacity to around 600 lbs will probably necessitate making it a few inches wider.

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 Post subject: Re: Tandem AII Wish List
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:18 am 
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Interesting discussion on capacity and beam.
It is a bit hard to judge, since the prototypes are two-toned, but it looks to me as if those hulls are quite a bit higher than the adventure hull. If that is correct, that would mean that quite a bit of extra volume has been won by the hull being higher. So they may not need to be thát much wider.

Being as narrow as the adventure hull has important advantages as you guys said, but there may also be a considerable disadvantage (for me, that is). For (as I have understood, but I can be wrong) tandems need to be a bit wider than one-seaters to feel equally stable when used tandem in kayak only mode. And it would be a pity if it is not possible to use it kayak-only with your kids or with a friend without much kayak experience in a relaxed way.

For sure Hobie will be selling this hull kayak-only as well. So they will think about that. And looking at how Hobie chooses in dilemma's like this, they will trie hard to come with a well thought-out compromise. I wouldn't be surprised if that would lead to something between 74-77 cm (speculations, speculations) ;).

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 Post subject: Re: Tandem AII Wish List
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 11:47 pm 
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Location: Escondido
The rear "bubble" hatch would look cool, but would also restrict volume, severely limiting load capacity and versatility.
You can't do any of these things without an open cargo well:

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