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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:36 am
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Location: Eagan (St Paul), MN
I went out on Karl's FX1 a few weeks ago and, um .... my credit card finger is getting twitchy. I can hear a sucking sound starting to form around my checking account....Can someone talk me down? Maybe I've got grass-is-greener syndrome....?

I've got a H17S and, in particular, it really seems to drag when two people are on board. The FX1 didn't seem to have any problem and was floating distinctly higher in the water than the 17 does. I've also had leaking wing sockets in the past and the wing insertion is a major hassle. So, while I've heard the FX is 'fragile', the 17 has had problems for me.

What are other people's opinions of FX1 vs h17?
What are the advantages of the 17 over the FX1? Must be something?
What are the problem points of the FX? {One advantage I give to the 17 is the short boom which seem to provide a bit more space on the tramp}.
Set up time differences?
Ease of single handed sailing and set up?
Boat fragility/durability?
Finally: I've grown to hate the 17 wings/insertion/fragility: what's the process like to get the FX wings on?

Finally: while I'm on the topic of switching boat: if not the FX one, what other boats should I be considering for when looking for fast, single handed (with 2 person capabilities) without a highly complex set up procedure?

thanks

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H17S, Hobie Bravo, A cat
Fleet 444


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:21 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 pm
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Location: Northfield Minnesota
HAAAA, haaaaa, haa...... OK, I'm done.


bock1 wrote:
considering for when looking for fast, single handed (with 2 person capabilities) without a highly complex set up procedure?



There is none.

Buy mine. It and the trailer will be for sale after Mega's in November. It should have a new kite, and all the dings/daggers will be fixed by Aquarius by that time. Been poor and haven't been able to get that stuff repaired.


Getting the wings in is easy. The open holes in each one of my crossbars is where they go. I just spray some lube on them and they slip in fairly easily up to the last two inches, then I just give em a kick and they seat.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 7:45 pm
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Location: CNY
bock1 wrote:
I went out on Karl's FX1 a few weeks ago and, um .... my credit card finger is getting twitchy. I can hear a sucking sound starting to form around my checking account....Can someone talk me down? Maybe I've got grass-is-greener syndrome....?

I've got a H17S and, in particular, it really seems to drag when two people are on board. The FX1 didn't seem to have any problem and was floating distinctly higher in the water than the 17 does. I've also had leaking wing sockets in the past and the wing insertion is a major hassle. So, while I've heard the FX is 'fragile', the 17 has had problems for me.

What are other people's opinions of FX1 vs h17?
What are the advantages of the 17 over the FX1? Must be something?
What are the problem points of the FX? {One advantage I give to the 17 is the short boom which seem to provide a bit more space on the tramp}.
Set up time differences?
Ease of single handed sailing and set up?
Boat fragility/durability?
Finally: I've grown to hate the 17 wings/insertion/fragility: what's the process like to get the FX wings on?

Finally: while I'm on the topic of switching boat: if not the FX one, what other boats should I be considering for when looking for fast, single handed (with 2 person capabilities) without a highly complex set up procedure?

thanks


First off, get the FX and put the decision behind you. I've had a lot of 16s, a couple 17s, and the FX.
The main advantage of the 17 is big wind. There is just something about the 17 in 18+ trapping off the wing that just can't be beat.

Problem points FX: The only thing I find frustrating is how long it takes to go from trailer to sail. The pole can't be put on til its off the trailer and it just adds complexity and time. I guess I was spoiled by the 16, 20 minutes and your gone. The setup time is easily 2x a 16 and the mast is a lot heavier. It can still be done by one with a little ingenuity tho. Oh yea, wings. They are a pain to trailer. They just don't "fit" anywhere easy. The reverse the wings for transport on the 17 was sweet.

The is a lot of room on the FX especially with the wings. Sitting on the wing is about like trapping. They are great for 2+ sailing tho. Seems like I'm on them less and less for boat balance reasons. It takes a decent amount of wind to trap off them with my wt. Boat is a tail dragger like the 17 and likes the weight at the crossbar. In light chop you'll get wetter too if weight is not forward. The flat bottoms splash water up.

durability: The 17 was/is a fragile boat in comparison. Its construction was much lighter and I don't think had any bulkheads. I believe it was laid up fiberglass with minimal foam sandwich. If it makes sense it was harder but not as strong. The FX has a TON of bulkheads vertically and horizontally, look inside one of the access posts you will be amazed. The outer skin on the FX seems less stiff and can get indented if you are not careful. Make no mistake it is very strong with foam sandwich construction.

Ease of sail: The Fx is a totally different sail than the 17 in my opinion. It sits much higher on the water and can easily sail with 2+; a 17 would not be any fun with 3 on board. The FX spins on a dime with the tall daggerboards and flat bottoms. After coming from 16s and even the 17 I think I was giggling the first time I spun it in its own length in pre-start manuevering. Being a high aspect sail it doesn't like my weight in light air. It will still move in a breath but without a jib it needs 10 to be fun. The 17 was no fun under 10 in retrospec. I would not put a jib on the FX unless I was always going to sail 2+. The spinnaker,well.... you just have to relearn to PULL instead of Push when get overpowered in a gust. Trust me you'll learn. :twisted: Winds over 20 are a handful with the spi, under 20 are a BLAST. The spi makes this boat and I can't imagine sailing it without it.

It's too bad more people didn't make the jump to this boat. I just hope they stay around a few more years.....and the dollar gets way stronger.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:36 am
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Location: Eagan (St Paul), MN
Karl, you are a bastard (in a good kind of way). Laugh at my pain and then try to cash in on it...especially when (after telling me that the only sane person's option is an FX1) I know I'll see you next year on some Australian carbon fiber knife with a sail attached to it. It's like you're trying to get me to date a dumpy ex-girlfriend so she'll stop pestering you. [That said, I might be interested..... :) ]

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e-mail: ab at medjet.net
H17S, Hobie Bravo, A cat
Fleet 444


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:34 pm 
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Location: Eagan (St Paul), MN
Thanks Jim......

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e-mail: ab at medjet.net
H17S, Hobie Bravo, A cat
Fleet 444


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 pm
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Location: Northfield Minnesota
I still haven't made up my mind what I'll go to, or if I'll even change boats. Besides this is the Hobie forum. There's three different boats in two classes that I'm interested in right now, none of which I can truly afford at this point and time. The more I think about it, the more I just want to keep my boat and continue dumping what little spare money I have back into the cabinet shop.

A couple of things that I disagree with JimK on:
-I trailer my boat with the spin pole on. Once I get a cover for the snuffer, the spinnaker will probably stay in the sock, and obviously the sock will stay on.
-I couldn't tell you which mast is lighter, but the H16 mast feels heavier lifting it up. I rig it by myself alot. I had it up before Bock1 showed up 3 weeks ago by myself. Having six foot ladder to set the mast on so the diamond wires are scratching up the rear beam is nice.
-I'm light, so 10mph winds are perfect for me, I'm on the wire flying a hull in that sailing solo. If you put a jib on it get the self tacker. Then just a couple of pins and the whole mess comes off when sailing solo.
-Winds much over 15mph its a handfull for me downwind.


On an odd note, I was looking at the sockets for the wings today, and how far into the beam they go. The part of the wing that goes into the beam is at least eight inches, if not a foot longer than it really needs to be. The whole reason I even looked at it was a friend and I were talking about just putting one wing in and trying for some speed reaching with the kite up, and I wondered if I could slip a collar over the part that goes into the beam to hold it out farther and get us a bit more leverage. Anyway, cutting off that bit would make trailering with them stacked on the beams much easier, because as JimK pointed out, trailering the wings is a pain in the rear.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:08 pm 
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Location: Northfield Minnesota
bock1 wrote:
Karl, you are a bastard (in a good kind of way). Laugh at my pain and then try to cash in on it...especially when (after telling me that the only sane person's option is an FX1) I know I'll see you next year on some Australian carbon fiber knife with a sail attached to it. It's like you're trying to get me to date a dumpy ex-girlfriend so she'll stop pestering you. [That said, I might be interested..... :) ]



I told you that you'd hate the 17 after spending a day driving the FX. You think you're driving all day was an accident? :twisted: I am trying to sell a class here!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:25 pm 
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Location: Seattle, Washington
Hell Yes you have to get one.

You gotta love the boat, I wish I still had mine.

The boat sets up pretty quick, I never took off the spin pole or snuffer.

Maybe the boat can still make it in the US, it just needs a few more guys like you to start racing it.

Me, I'm the FX traitor who had to go back to a Tiger.

We will see what waits in the wings for me.

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Hobie Tiger
Wind in your sails, water in your shoes, great day!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:02 am 
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Wasn't sure what JimK meant. The "pole" is spin pole or the mast?

The biggest sticking point for the FX is undoubtedly the cost. Runs about 17K in Euros when I look -- although I might have found the highest price seller.

As far as the trailer goes, I agree with JimK. It doesn't fit on any stock trailer. However, there apparently are special-made cradles that come with the new FX and they can be mounted on typical crossbars. This is what I was told anyway. (But as real estate agents say: This information is deemed reliable but not guaranteed!)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:40 am 
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JJ wrote:
However, there apparently are special-made cradles that come with the new FX and they can be mounted on typical crossbars. This is what I was told anyway. (But as real estate agents say: This information is deemed reliable but not guaranteed!)


I will guarantee it. Every new FX comes with 6 cradles. 4 for the trailer and 2 for the beach wheels.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:19 am 
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Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Since you're giving away cradles I could use a set for my wheels!!! BTW its for an 18.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:20 pm 
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Tom Machette wrote:
Since you're giving away cradles I could use a set for my wheels!!! BTW its for an 18.


Absolutely Tom! I would be happy to include them with your new boat order. :wink:

J

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:40 pm 
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Location: Campbell, CA
I am finding the FX1 to be less forgiving in terms of weigh distribution and helm precision. As a result the rate of capsize is far more frequent - as you might expect adding a spi.

I am probably going to stay with my FX1 because it is actually becoming fun, and has given me new things to conquer. But other than that, it would be for sale, and I'd return to the winged and familiar bosom of my 17.

Mast weight - lighter than the 17 -I have a bad back and the 17 mast will give me a three day ache from one stepping- eight feet from the ball. Stepping the mast on the FX1 with only six feet of leverage from the ball, I get no ache - some other mechanical mystery could be at play here, but I truly think the FX1 mast is lighter.

The 17 has those those big sea-anchor wings. When you are capsized and separated, you have a fighting chance of catching the boat. My FX1 (non-winged) drifts away at probably four knots in 15kts of wind.

Cheese slicer shrouds: Flying a hull, spi up, sitting on the hull (not trapped), when you under react to a puff and the lee bow digs in and you take flight into the shroud, you can break bones, tear flesh, etc (two months ago a friend who sails a Tiger broke his finger, really trashed it, between his leg and the shroud during a pitch-pole. Bone broken in several spots, and his leg had a massive bruise.) The 17 - when you are going fast enough to become sliced cheddar, you are trapped - out of harms way, or, I should say, harm is out of your way.

Peace,

Dan Peake
2003 H17SE
2005 FX1


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:20 pm 
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Hi Dan, if you're digging the bows in alot with the spinnaker, and your weight is already back, pull the boards up a bit. Its one more thing to bounce off of, but the FXone really does have too much board under it when the wind is up. In lighter air they work great though. I still haven't done it, but adding a foot strap to the back corner would be a good addition too. I don't trap with the spinnaker up too much, but I need to start doing it. If you can keep from screwing up, it is faster than sitting on the hull.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:54 pm 
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Thanks for the pointer. And Karl, I meant to ask, what's this noise about getting rid of your beloved FX1? What brought on the urge to sell? Especially at this time of year.

Peace,

Dan Peake
2003 H17SE
2005 FX1


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