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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:04 pm 
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I bought an i12s this past weekend and went out on the Willamette river near Portland, Or.
Saturday afternoon, after peddling ~2 miles upriver, I started back, downstream and downwind (I don't have a sail yet).
A huge thunderstorm caught me from behind near St. Johns Bridge and was eventually blown safely to my landing, but not without a few moments of doubt.
Several times, I found my rudder not working effectively. The lightly loaded boat would wander right, I would rudder increasingly left and the boat would spin to the right. Same thing happend to my son next morning and to me again the following afternoon. Solution was to stow the rudder, pull out the paddle and get going in the right direction with the paddle. Then, I could drop the rudder and start peddling again with some directional fidelity. Anybody else had this issue? Would the larger rudder solve it? Is it from the currents and wind? Am I too far forward or stern in the boat? There is a wide range of adjustment to the seat and peddles.

Otherwise, I love the boat. I put it on top or inside my van and am on the water in 8 minutes. Now mapping all the wonderful waterways around Portland to explore. I have a folding Dahon bicycle and am looking for a folding bike trailer. I'll park upstream, put the bike & trailer on the boat (~40 lbs), go downstream, land and pull the boat (bundled) with the bike back to the parked car. What a hoot! :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:50 pm 
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Location: Tasmania, Australia
G'day rebiesem

I have an i12, and have experienced a similar problem, even with the larger rudder.

You need to check that the rudder (down) line is firmly cleated or the rudder rides up and causes the boat to ver off to the right. It is quite alarming the first time it happens usually in hairy conditions :D

The larger rudder makes the boat much easier to helm even without the sail rig, and is absolutely essential for sailing.

All in all its a great craft and loads of fun. I will look forward to hearing of your adventures with the folding bike set up, it sounds like great fun.

Tasman


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:59 pm 
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Location: Switzerland
Hi guys,

i once had a similar issue going down a river, the boat would be pushed slightly on the side from the back, but i could bring it back easily. The current was not very strong though.

you can definitely have problems similar to this in any condition if the rudder is not "clamped" down properly.

As for sailing, i use the turbo fins but the normal rudder and have no problem at all to maintain direction. I just pedal once in a while to bring back the boat in line.

great boat.

Hugues
from Switzerland


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 9:06 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
Good point! Going down stream and maintaining rudder control requires that you move "through" the water... not just on it. Forward motion through the water is required for steerage.

I could also see a boat pushed forward onto its bow by wind, current or waves... that would stall the bow and cause the boat to turn. In that case more pedal speed would bring the boat back in control.

If you just want to drift down stream, use the paddle for directional control.

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 10:43 am 
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Thanks Tasman,

I'll be installing the sail rudder when my sail kit arrives.
How do you "cleat" the rudder?
Maybe I can just tape an indicator on the side of the boat where the green handle should be when the rudder is firmly down.

Here's a link to the trailer i need to check out.
http://www.burley.com/products/adventure/flatbed.cf
The bed is not wide enough for the boat bundle to lie flat, but the boat bundle may bend over the sides to clear the wheels
I'll let you know how it goes.

Ralph


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:03 pm 
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Location: Tasmania, Australia
G'day Ralph

Sorry for the sailing jargon - there is a "jam cleat" on the boat for wedging the rudder line when you have moved it into the down position. When the rudder line is placed in this wedge its "cleated" for want of a better word :) There is a good image of this black dimond shaped gizmo, shown on page 6 of the manual, right hand, side above the pictures of the rudder.

The Burley trailers are interesting, but have you looked at the Carry Freedom City trailer, which has a really great folding wheel arrangement.

http://www.carryfreedom.com/city.html

I have one of these trailers and it fits the back of the boat very well. This trailer will carry 45kg and folds really well. I had a Birdy folding bike (since sold) before I bought my i12 as I had planned a similar transportation scheme for another craft. The Birdy and Carry Freedom City would have both fitted on the back of the i12 with no big drama.

Tasman


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 7:48 pm 
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I thought that cleat on the side was for the sail line! I used the cleat today and it worked nicely. The rudder line needs to be tight and stay tight. Even 1/2" of play severely affects the rudder functions. The rudder line doesn't fit down into the cleat very far, but I am getting the hang of it.

Others on the forum advice served me well too. I found that first going straight forward from a stop gave me more helm. I don't know, maybe I thought the i12s would act like an outboard motor, where the steering and the power come from a single point.

Tasman, I like that city trailer. A little spendy, so I'll try a few other jury-rigs first.

Ralph


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 9:08 am 
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FYI... rudder cleat is shown in the manual (Page 6)

http://www.hobiecat.com/support/pdfs/Inflatable_Kayak_Manual_9-2007.pdf

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:44 pm 
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I received the sail and tried it with the standard i12s rudder.. No go. :(
I purchased and installed the larger rudder and it's good. Works with the sail, better direction, stability, no unexpected moves. I love this setup. :lol:
Why doesn't Hobie make the larger rudder a standard item? :?:
Sailing is fun. If you want to cover distance, use the pedals. even downwind it helps. Sailing cross or upwind requires tacking, which is challenging. The sail alone is not nearly as fast as sail plus peddeling. My legs are now in great shape and I have lost about 15 lbs from the exercise on the i12s. I take it out anytime I can, leaving it folded in my vehicle.
I have made a bike trailer, which breaks down into a cart that plugs into the mirage drive sockets. The trailer uses the 4 pc paddle to extend the cart and connect to the bicycle hitch. I wish I could post a picture.

Hobie community moderator! please allow posting of videos and photos!

I think I've sold about 9 Hobie Inflatables to spectators who are amazed at this vessel.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:12 am 
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Something I picked up from the seaplane guys back when I was flying airplanes a lot was when the current is from behind the controls are reversed (yet another reason I stuck to skis instead of floats...) If you are going downstream and the current is going faster than you the same will apply. Moving the rudder to the left will move the back to the left instead of the front.

This would be part of what makes it so fun I guess...


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:45 am 
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rebiesem wrote:
Hobie community moderator! please allow posting of videos and photos!


We do allow posting of images... we just don't host them here.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:26 am
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Location: UK
sneakypete wrote:
Something I picked up from the seaplane guys back when I was flying airplanes a lot was when the current is from behind the controls are reversed (yet another reason I stuck to skis instead of floats...) If you are going downstream and the current is going faster than you the same will apply. Moving the rudder to the left will move the back to the left instead of the front.

This would be part of what makes it so fun I guess...


No way can the current go faster than you! Unless you are in reverse gear... in which case, yes, the stern will possibly follow the rudder, but I wouldn't depend on it - like you say, that's what makes it so fun!

Ditch

p.s. - airplanes trying to slow down and steer despite a following wind are probably what the guys were talking about - once the plane has 'landed' (???) it becomes a boat (and you can panic much more slowly)!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:13 pm 
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If you let the wind on the water push you backwards, all steering inputs are reversed, It takes a little getting used to! With a nice breeze, those flat bottom inflatables can scoot along at a pretty good clip with or without a sail. :lol:

BTW, if you're standing or otherwise think there is a possibility of falling out, it might be a good idea to tether yourself to the boat! 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:13 am 
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I guess that if you were being taken downstream by a moderate current into a very strong headwind, then it would be possible for the wind to slow you down so that although you would still be moving forward over the ground, it would be at a slower speed than the current; ie - the water would be moving faster over the ground than you; ie - your boat is actually moving backwards through the water... but conditions like that would probably make the water so choppy that you would be tempted to give up the struggle!

Under sail, the effects would be different because you would be beating into the wind at a 45 degree angle, and the effect of the current would be to increase the 'apparent' windspeed, giving you increased power from your sail.

Ditch


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