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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:39 am 
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Location: Napa Vally Ca
I acquired my Hobie 16 from my dad who bought the boat from Hobie alter way back when he was in med school. Any way the hulls are still in great shape and she sails pretty well still. Guess thats a testiment to how these boats hold up if you take care of them. I accidently drug the orignial forstay wire on the freeway the other day behind the trailer and it ate the wire up so I had to replace it. Well on the orignial boats the forstay, jib block, and pigtail were all one unit so the dealr said I was goign to have to buy a new forstay wire, jib blick and just ot drill out the old block and use the pig tail from it. So I did just this and my problem now is that the forstay is way to long in the front it lets the mast rake way back. IN the old configiration the forstay would connect to the top hole of the ten hole adjuster and the shrouds would both be at the top holes and the whole thing was pretty tight in that configuration. Now I have the shrouds on one side at the very bottom hole and the other at 2 holes from the bottom and the forstay four holes down.
Are the new bridal wires shorter than the old ones from the early 70's or is the mast supposed to lean this far back now on the newer boats. My real fear is that if I let the mast go much further back that it is going ot clear the stops on the base of the boat where the mast rotates. Should I just go about replacing all the wires with the more uptodate wires and should I look into replacing the socket where the mast base goes into on the boat with a new one that is angled back a little more? Any way would appreciate any input that anybody might have on this thanks again.
Lee


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:10 am 
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Location: Lake Champlain, Vermont
Hi Lee,

Sounds like your chasin' the same sort of problem I did recently with a '79 Hobie 16. You can see the thread in this forumn (Hobie wires question), but the gist of it is below...

My advice is to get a complete wire set of the same vintage. My boat is now running fine with a modern set of wires (all new)....

Let me know how you make out.

Dan in Vermont
'79 Hobie 16 w/2003 standing rigging.



Gist.....

Yes, in 1982 the shrouds got shorter and the forestay got longer. We shortened the shrouds again in 1995 to sync up with the Hobie 17 wires which were fractions different. We also ('82) angled the step casting aft for better mast rake ability.

Current 16 Wires (measured pin to pin / where clevis pins would rest against the inside of the thimbles)

Forestay 17' 6" (Was 17' 3/4" before 1982)
Shroud 18' 11" (Was 19' 2 1/2" before 1982)

You should be able to rig the boat with the shrouds and forestay on top holes of their adjusters.

The 16 sails best with the mast as far aft as possible. With what-ever blocks you have, rake the mast aft till the blocks nearly touch when fully sheeted. The bows will ride higher and the boat will point higher. The boat will pitch pole much more easily if the mast is forward.

End Gist....

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Dan in Vermont
Hobie 20 Miracle


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:37 am 
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Location: Napa Vally Ca
Hey vtnative
Thanks for the advice yeah i was reading that thread a while ago what kills me is it wouldent have been a problem if I hadent drug the wire behind me on the road :). Any way that aside you recommend getting a new set of wires. Sounds like a good plan I think I just might do that. Did you get a new pig tail that hoooked into the Jib block at the mast with your new set of wires or is it pretty much the same one you had with your orignal rigging? And the other question I had was have you found that the mast foot on the boat needs to be moved back at all or is it workign fine where it was orignially rivited to the forward crossmember of the boat right oabove the dolphine striker? Any way just curious cause I have heard that newers boats have this mounted back a bit more to accomidate the extra rake in the mast. Any way thanks again for the reply im going to look into getting that new set of wires today for it.
Lee


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 6:36 pm 
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Am I missing something, but surely this makes no difference when you rig the boat up as you tension the jib, making the forestay hang loose anyway, and unless you have changed the jib, you should be able to maintain the same mast rake as before even with the longer forestay. It will just mean that you have a bit more slack flying around with the forestay. The problems will come if you change the shroud length.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:00 pm 
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Location: Lake Champlain, Vermont
Lee,

I left the mast base alone. This did also change in the early 80's. It was tilted back to accomodate folks raking the mast back further. The current wire set (shrouds, forestay, etc.) work fine with my '79 mast base. When I step my mast, I start with the shrouds in the top hole of the adjuster, and then bring up the mast. The forestay goes in the top hole of it's adjuster. I then use the trap lines to move the shrouds down to the second hole.

The pigtail that connects to the jib block on my Hobie 16 was pretty worn, so I replaced it as well, but it appears to be the same length as the old wires....

In the end, it's important to use the same vintage wires for your Hobie... a combination of old and new just doesn't work.... I couldn't bring the forestay to within 6" of it's adjuster when I installed new shrouds with the old forestay....

Dan in Vermont
'79 Hobie 16

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Hobie 20 Miracle


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 Post subject: Wire length & mast rake
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 1:59 pm 
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Location: Liverpool, NY
Hey guys,

It shouldn't matter what wires you put on any year. You will find the newer wires shorter.(sidestays) All you do is add a 7 hole chainplate to the bridle and you will make it long enough to work.

I dragged my wires down the highway once, when I replced my forestay I just made it 7" longer than the old one. You can do this easily at any West Marine, Boat US, etc.

Another thing that you may what to look at is the condition of your mast bases. They do wear out over time. Thios can cause over rotaion and depower the boat quite a bit. They are not that big of a deal to change.

Once you get used to sailing the boat with the amount of rake that most competitive racers are using you will never go back to the upright rig.

To measure your mast rake:
-Rig you boat (with the jib halyard tightened the wat you sail)
-lead the main halyard to the front bridle attatchment screw
-hold that spot with your fingers and bring the halyard aft to the back of the boat.
-you should have between 8-16" of line from where your first spot is to the bottom of the transom of your boat.

This measurement will improve your upwind performance and keep the bows up when going downwind in big breeze.

If your sails are original your jib clew may be very low on the front crossbar.

Tom Korz

H-16 1975 20474
79 52009
81 64851
84 89233
87 98710
91 100371
94 102233
99 102788
This is the chronology of 16's I've owned, raced and sailed. Still have the 99 &
Hobie Tiger 855


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 8:25 pm 
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Location: Lake Champlain, Vermont
Hi Tom,

Thanks for the shot of advice from someone with a "boat-load" of experience. Gee's that's quite a list of Hobie's you've sailed. \

Anyway, thanks. One question, What did you mean when you say,

"If your sails are original your jib clew may be very low on the front crossbar".

I'm having a bunch of trouble with my jib really snaping when sailing close-hauled, but I don't yet have battens installed. I do notice that I'm not really able to pull the bottom edge of the jib in tight with the jib sheet. I'm not sure if this is normal. I've tried some home-built jib battens (see the post titled Jib Advice), but it looks like I'm really going to need the hinges.....what's your experience.

Many thanks.

Dan in Vermont
'79 Hobie 16.....my first Hobie...

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Dan in Vermont
Hobie 20 Miracle


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 Post subject: Jibs etc.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 6:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 7:15 pm
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Location: Liverpool, NY
If your sails are original, there is about a 99% chance that the leech(trailing edge) of the sail is blown out. This will cause flapping when sailing upwind. You can have a sailmaker take a little along the leech in or buy a new jib.

Let me tell you a little about jib development over the past few(15-20) years. The trend in rigging has been for more and more mast rake. So the foots of the jib have been getting shorter over time. This allows you to attatch the tack(front lower corner of the jib) lower on the chainplate. If you put ypur early vintage sail on the ground and lay the newest jib cut over it you will see a dramatic difference in shape and size. With an older jib you will find that you have to tack it very high to get the clew off the crossbar and to get proper sheet tension.

As far as battens are concerned, get REAL battens and shave them as thin as you dare and trim them so they don't stick out of the batten pocket too far. Battens can be tapered to induce draft into the desired position in your sail. That is a whole other topic of conversation.

Batten hinges are JUNK!!

Point High & Foot Fast

Tom K :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 8:30 am 
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Location: Napa Vally Ca
vtnative yeah What Tom was saying there about the hinges is true I thougt they woudl be the way to go as well and I was down at my hobie store had them on the counter ready to buy and the guy was like id love to sell these to you but they are worthless. :) Yeah so dont buy the hinges youll be wasting a lot of money cause you will cut the battons and then have to get new noes after you figure out that they dont work :) at least that is what the dealer told me. Any way Thanks a lot tom for all the great advice on the wires. Think Im going to get new shrouds for my boat, and one other question you think I shoudl move from a 10 hole chain plate to the 7 hole to connect the forstay to the bridal wires? I guess it doesnt really matter because once you have your jib sheeted in its just really how much forestay wire you want hanging down there on either side of the boat. Mabye ill take some pictures of my mast base and the base socket on teh front rail you guys can evaluate what you think of their condition. Thanks for now ill post the pics a bit later
Lee


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 6:30 pm
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Location: Lake Champlain, Vermont
Hey Tom,

I've got to say that I really look forward to reading your replies to our posts.....someone with your knowledge and experience and who's willing to type a little to help out us newbee's is really appreciated.

Thanks a bunch for the advice about battens and the jib. Mine has got to be an old one, so I expect your correct about my problem with the thrashing of the jib's leach when sailing close-hauled upwind. If I consider getting a new jib, do you have any suggestions for a source...Hobe?

Thanks again.

Dan in Vermont
'79 Hobie 16, Learning more each day....

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Dan in Vermont
Hobie 20 Miracle


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 Post subject: Here's my take on it
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:16 pm 
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Location: Liverpool, NY
I'm a HARDCORE 1 design racer. So I wouldn't buy anything that was not class legal for my boat. But if you are not racing in NAHCA 1 design events then it might not hurt to shop around abit. i.e. Smyth Sails, Calvert, even the Murrays catalog has sails.

This all being said there is a whole lotta fun to be had in racing and learning to make your boat go faster. So I highly recommend that you find some local events and give them a try. you will usually find everyone quite friendly and receptive to new sailors. The folks at the top of the fleet are ALWAYS willing to share tips and techniques. You are also in a large group with a common interest Cat sailing.


We have a race in Syracuse, NY that has close to 100 boats, some awsome social events(parties), guest expert programs, etc. this takes place in May and we would love to invite any and all!

http://www.fleet204.com/

thisi is our fleet web site. check it out

I'm always willing to give my opinion to anyone who will listen. Time permitting

Good luck, Great Sailing

Tom Korz


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