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 Post subject: Customized H17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 7
I have been modifying my HC17 alot and the old lady just wonderful.
I have made a customized spi-kit, changed to a tiger mast (shortened 50 cm), added a Tiger Main Sail (modified to fit the mast length of a HC17 and with a fathead profile) and also a Tiger jib. I also forgot all about the wings as they are just dead weight for me and I can become better on walking back and front the hull as I sail (to keep an optimal balance) Check it out at youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPRagth5aRQ


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 Post subject: Re: Customized H17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4575
Location: Detroit, MI
Good thing you took the wings off. I don't think the frame could withstand the extra loads. You're also lucky you're sailing on a lake without significant waves.

Even so, I predict a crossbar failure in the near future. Probably the rear. I could see the frame twisting badly in one shot.

Ports in the forward deck aren't good structurally, either.


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 Post subject: Re: Customized H17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:37 pm 
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Hi and thanks for your comments. It isnt a lake so I get out in the bigger waves from time to time. I havent had any problems so far with this but I really appreciate your concern about the frame etc. Is there any way one can test this on land,,, I mean to see if there is any problems?
Thanks Hans


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 Post subject: Re: Customized H17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:36 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
hanswahlquist, nice mods and video. I've watched your video a couple times and I DON'T see the frame twisting mbounds mentioned. With proper mounting (secure end caps and tight crossbeam blots) and good tramp tension, there is no reason that you should have a crossbeam failure. Basically, mbounds does not like boat modifications. With regards to removing the wings, I personally would never give up my wings. They are one of the reasons I went with the H17 Sport. I'm 55 and don't do a lot of trapping anymore so the wings allow me to 'get out' a bit and they make great backrest in lighter winds. 8) Image


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 Post subject: Re: Customized H17
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:51 pm 
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Location: Detroit, MI
hanswahlquist wrote:
Hi and thanks for your comments. It isnt a lake so I get out in the bigger waves from time to time. I havent had any problems so far with this but I really appreciate your concern about the frame etc. Is there any way one can test this on land,,, I mean to see if there is any problems?
Thanks Hans


I've raced 17s for 16 years and I know the boats pretty well. I own one of the last ones built (2007). I'm an engineer and a naval architect. Contrary to fastcat's assertion, I don't really care what people do to their boats - as long as they're doing it for fun and not racing.

I've broken both front and rear crossbars - with just the standard 17 rig. I know of a lot of other people (racers) that have had the same problem. Hobie Cat Co. ended up installing stiffener plates inside the crossbars sometime in the late 80s / early 90s to prevent breakage. (The crossbars crack on the bottom, starting from the bolt hole.)

I see the frame twisting at about 1:25 in the video. Every time you pump the main, the rear corner lifts up.

There's no real way to test whether the frame is up to the stress. If it goes, you'll hear a loud "pop" and the frame will get very loose.

The real problem is - there are no new crossbars available as replacements. You'll need to find used ones if you break one.


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 Post subject: Re: Customized H17
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:36 pm
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Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Ok, not-to-belabor-the-point, but I rechecked the the video at 1:25 and yes, the rear windward corner does come up slightly when the sail is pumped, but you can not determine if it is frame twisting without seeing if the leeward bow concurrently dips or not. If there has been mass failure of the H17 crossbeams on non-modified boats under normal use, then it appears there is a general design flaw of the boat by a naval architect. Mbounds does make a very good and sobering point, H17 parts (new or used) are going to be harder and more expensive to come by. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Customized H17
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 7
If the beam would fail, it could maybe be a good idea to make another out of carbon fibre. It should be more strong and less heavy.


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 Post subject: Re: Customized H17
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:50 am
Posts: 34
Location: Liberty Lake Washington
Holy smokes guys. Just get out and sail the boats as hard as you can. I've been sailing and racing 16's, 17's & 18's for 29 years and we have even had four people out on an 18 in 50+ winds at Sandpoint (old Hobie Fleet 13) when the race was canceled and everything hung in on the 18. I have had the similiar experiences on 16's. My current 17 I have yet to have a problem with in heavy air and my 16's hull flex way more than my 17. Stop sqabbling and let's all just have fun and run the heck out of the boats. Hobie made them though. If you want to talk flex or thin, we can talk about Nacra's or Tornadoes.

:P

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The harder it blows the better it goes!


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 Post subject: Re: Customized H17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:42 pm 
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Location: Tri-Cities, WA
tcrowe30,
Quote:
Just get out and sail the boats as hard as you can.

Your point is well taken and timing is right on. I was out sailing (29th trip of the season) on the Columbia River last Friday in moderate winds, heard a loud 'POP' and felt the boat shutter just like Mbounds wrote about. I thought for sure fate had cought up with me and one of my cross beams failed. Then, I noticed the wind vane attached to my roller furler was askew. THEN, I noticed that the roller furler stainless steel housing had snapped and the furler (hense mast) was being held by just about nothing. Seconds later that just about nothing became nothing and the mast fell (de-masted). Fortunately, except for a cracked bottom batten, there was no other damage, unless you count my pride for needing a tow from a motor boat. Today I ordered overnight deliver of a new furler from Murrays and plan to be back on the water this Thursday. Though a bit poorer. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Customized H17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 7
ooooooops good that you didn't hurt yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Customized H17
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:36 pm
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Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Fortunately, if you loose a forestay while going up-wind (as I was), the mast falls toward the leeward side of the boat while you are sitting on the windward side. I'm just glad I was soloing so there was no other person to worry about. I've repaired the cracked batten and the new furler gets delivered today, then I'm back on the water for an extended 4 day weekend at the Gap (see places to sail). :wink: :D 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Customized H17
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:50 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:36 am
Posts: 96
Location: Eagan (St Paul), MN
Cool pictures. What kind of camera did you use to shoot this and how did you mount it to the boat? thx

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Adam
e-mail: ab at medjet.net
H17S, Hobie Bravo, A cat
Fleet 444


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 Post subject: Re: Customized H17
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:06 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:36 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Bock1 - For the hull flying picture, I don't know the camera. The picture was taken from a friends H16. The beach shot (places to sail photo) was taken with a Kodak Easy Shot 5.0 mp.

Four days of sailing at the Gap, winds variable 5 - 25+, was a good test for the new furler. Got in some good wing dipping (high flys) and fast reaches. Life is good. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Customized H17
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:07 am
Posts: 7
bock1 wrote:
Cool pictures. What kind of camera did you use to shoot this and how did you mount it to the boat? thx

Hi and thanks (if you mean the movie?) I used a Oregon Scientific action cam (waterproof). It has a not so impressive resolution and not so good wide angle but hey, its waterproof and rough. I taped it with duck tape to different locations on the boat and on some shoots, my daughter held it in her hand under water until I raised the hull in the wind. The shoots from the boat was an ordinary video cam.
Alltogether mixed in the plain old MS MovieMaker
Cheers / Hans


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