Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:47 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:07 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:16 pm
Posts: 42
So I got my new square top Whirlwind main. Had a sail, took it really easy. No sweat. Went out again, and when I got back I could not get the sail down.

Turns out the luff had come out of the channel at the top of the sail. The top 18 inches or so.

Any ideas why this would have happened? What I may have done wrong?

Some background info: The new sail is a bit longer than the original, so I don't have as much length of downhaul underneath it.

Immediately after leaving the shore I noticed the ring had slipped off and sail was coming down a little. I got the boat in irons and managed to get the sail back up. A little later I noticed my downhaul was slack.

Did this have something to do with it? Any ideas?

Thanks,

Dan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:29 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:36 am
Posts: 97
Location: Eagan (St Paul), MN
hmmm. I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't have come out of the luff track if you had the down haul tightened since that has the effect off keeping the bolt rope (thickened cord sewn into the luff of the sail) tight and vertical. However, a bigger issue to me is: I think the bolt rope should be thick enough so that the sail cannot come out the luff track. It may be that the rope they sewed in is too narrow in caliber. We'll see if anyone else can confirm that...

_________________
Adam
e-mail: ab at medjet.net
H17S, Hobie Bravo, A cat
Fleet 444


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:01 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4642
Location: Detroit, MI
It's not any of the above.

It's a fairly common occurrance with newer sails with Teflon bolt ropes (like new Hobie sails and presumably the Whirlwind sails).

The bolt rope is slippery enough that it forces the plastic Comptip track open at the top under significant mainsheet tension.

The cure is the "Luff Track Update" part #50404111 which replaces the top 18" of plastic luff track on the Comptip with an aluminum extrusion.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:22 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:16 pm
Posts: 42
MBounds wrote:
It's not any of the above.

It's a fairly common occurrance with newer sails with Teflon bolt ropes (like new Hobie sails and presumably the Whirlwind sails).

The bolt rope is slippery enough that it forces the plastic Comptip track open at the top under significant mainsheet tension.

The cure is the "Luff Track Update" part #50404111 which replaces the top 18" of plastic luff track on the Comptip with an aluminum extrusion.



How difficult is it to change it out, once you have the part?

thanks,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:35 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:39 am
Posts: 471
Location: Finger Lakes, NY
I have heard of this problem on another forum (beachcats.com I think).

I have never seen the aluminum extrusion before this - but it looks fairly easy to install.

The solution I have seen is to have a second layer of cloth added to the top few inches over the existing bolt to make thick enough to not pull out. Just making it heavier in the top few inches should suffice and also not make the sail more difficult to set.

Here's a temporary solution:build up the head of the luff by wrapping a few layers of sail tape around the luff at the very top 6 layers should be a build of just over 1/8th. That should make the head thick enough to not pull out.

A permanent solution may require a few hours with a sewing palm, or a local loft, OR asking the sail manufacturer to do this.

(Dan - is the foot of the sail still in the luff groove of the mast when you apply downhaul or is the new sail THAT much longer that it pulls into in the feed-slot, not the luff groove ? )

_________________
The fact that this windy world is largely covered in water obviously means that man was meant to sail.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:39 am 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4642
Location: Detroit, MI
send4help wrote:
How difficult is it to change it out, once you have the part?

Instructions come with the kit. You remove the plastic Comptip track (very easy), cut the proper length off, install the Al piece (I believe you use a hammer / screwdriver - it snaps on, but it's a hard snap), then reinstall the plastic track (fairly easy).

If everything goes well, it takes about 15-30 minutes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:44 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:36 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
I have a 2000 H17Sport, got a whirlwind square top 3 seasons ago (~ 100 trips sailing so far) and have had no problems with the top pulling out (I have the 18 inch metal track at the mast head). So Mbounds solution should do the trick. As to sail luff length, yes I agree that Chip at Whirlwind builds them just a shade too long. Another change I would like to see is the bottom batten pocket extend all the way to the leech of the sail. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:04 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:16 pm
Posts: 42
I just did a search on how to replace the luff track. I found a good instruction page for replacing the H18 luff track.

Is it the same for the 17?

What would be a good instrument for cutting the plastic and the metal?

and for smoothing the cut edges?

Dan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:15 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4642
Location: Detroit, MI
send4help wrote:
I found a good instruction page for replacing the H18 luff track. Is it the same for the 17?

Yes.

send4help wrote:
What would be a good instrument for cutting the plastic and the metal?

Hacksaw.
Image
send4help wrote:
and for smoothing the cut edges?

How about a file?
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:05 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:36 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
If you have a Dremel http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Tools/Pages/CategoryProducts.aspx?catid=13you can do both the cutting and smoothing. If you don't consider getting one. It works well for lots of stuff. Harbor Freight has cheap China knockoffs, but you get what you pay for. :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:18 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:16 pm
Posts: 42
I was just thinking of that. I have one and it is at the lake.

thanks, everyone.

Dan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:09 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2620
Location: Jersey Shore
I installed the aluminum track extrusion in an older mast a few years ago because I was having this same problem- top of the sail pulling out. The aluminum track will solve this issue.

However, I could not get the aluminum track to snap on. Can't remember everything I did to try to get it to pop on, but I couldn't get it (I think I even tried to use a mallet to pop it on with no luck). I ended up taking off the aluminum mast cap, sliding the track into place, and then re-riveting the cap back on. Took a little longer than the way Hobie tells you to do it, but it worked.

sm


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:31 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:16 pm
Posts: 42
Mariner-sails got me the luff update in 2 days! They get an A+ from me.
now I'll get to have some fun putting it on.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:34 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:36 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Looks like your repair is right on Track :lol: :wink: 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:53 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:16 pm
Posts: 42
Interesting weekend...I got to the lake Firday afternoon. it was, of course, perfect for sailing. But I had my repair to do. I had one buddy to help drop the mast, and I did the repair. It went very easily, as described in the instructions. (this amazes me when this actually happens)...but by the time my buddy could come back to raise the mast, it was nearly dark, and the wind was dead anyway. But, I was all set for Saturday.

Saturday, AM,,,and the luff won't advance past the junction between the old plastic luff track, and the new aluminum piece. Dead stop...So..I and another bud drop the mast and I run the sail up. No burs, no filings,, but due to the age and wear of the old plastic, it's a little wider than the new aluminum track...so we took a screwdriver and just "shoe-horned" the new track a little wider. We raised the mast and it worked!!!

I went sailing!! And the sail came down when I wanted it to, at the end of the trip.

Sunday...the sail would not go up. This time instead of dropping the mast, I took a pair of pliers and "squished" the butt end of the luff bolt and took sail repair tape and created a tapered end, and with some silicone spray, she worked, and a successful sail was had.

I'm contemplating ways of modifying the butt end of the luff bolt into some kind of bullet shaped taper. Got any ideas? or cautions??
It just gets frustrating to have to fool around with this every time I want to go out.

thanks,
Dan


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group