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 Post subject: Shroud-Related Injury
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:25 pm 
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Location: Campbell, CA
Last Saturday a friend and I were out on the SF bay on his Tiger. The winds were about 20kts and the chop was medium. The spi was up. We were hiking but not trapped. Pointing a little too high in order to avoid shallow water, we became overpowered and the bows dug in.

No flip, but, we slid forward quickly. Being in the crew position, I was the one to hit the shroud first. Now, four days later, I'm still limping around with a swollen and painful thigh.

So, being totally foreseeable event, prone to occur in such conditions, what do people do to avoid being injured by the shroud?

If we had been trapped, there is no question we would have flipped (which I would prefer to the past four days of limping). But also, being trapped instead of hiking we may have had trouble with the height of the chop. Staying flat while flying the spi seems to greatly enhance control, but getting slapped by waves reduces control.

Ideas I have considered (i) padding my thighs (in my dry-suit), or padding the lower part of the shroud (ii) a line to the rear of the boat to hang on to (probably not class-legal). (iii) Sitting, somehow, with one foot against the shroud (but accidentally straddling the shroud during a bow-dive could result in a very serious injury).

I do not see this as a rare event. In August, the same friend who was skippering on Saturday, broke his finger between his leg and the shroud (spi-up, he was hiking, his crew was trapped when they got a freak 30+ kt gust). His leg was painful as well.

Being that I just recently bought a Tiger of my own, I want to figure this situation out and protect myself from reinjury. I look forward to your comments and ideas!

Peace,

Dan Peake
Campbell, CA
2002 Tiger
2005 FX1
2002 H17 SE


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:25 pm 
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You gotta hold on to something so you don't slide forward!

_It is expected to dive the bows and stop the boat in chop...and when you're in those types of conditions you need to be holding on~ Typically if its too crazy to trap and you are sitting on the boat - its best for the helm to move inboard and you to sit in line with him and behind directly at the rear beam on the hull (while he's sitting inboard on the tramp) this way you can lean over the rear beam and wrap your arm around the rear beam to hold you in place at the back of the boat.

I think its best to trap though, having the crew on trap, on the rear of the boat will help keep the bows up -use a footstrap on the rear corner, or a chicken line to keep you on the back...if you stuff make sure to let the spi go! Just flog it and the boat will come back under control - then sheet back in and put the hammer down again!!! Make sure you Enjoy the ride!!!!

Have a Hobie Day~~~ Who Hoooo


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:38 pm 
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Quote:
-use a footstrap on the rear corner, or a chicken line to keep you on the back...


OK. Now do us a favor and explain where, what, and how. Like where or what to buy. Where or how you install them. Footstrap and chicken line.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:34 pm 
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Location: Campbell, CA
A chicken line may help. However, I am thinking back to the pre-seat-belt, 15mph collision test videos of automobiles in the 1960s, showing the futile bracing actions of people during collisions. I do not know how fast my boat was decelerating (that is key), but if it's hitting 2gs, my arm would be hanging onto around 360lbs! Hmmm, not sure I can do that. Probably better than nothing though.

Peace,

Dan Peake
Campbell, CA
2002 Tiger
2005 FX1
2003 H17 SE


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:26 am 
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JJ wrote:
Quote:
-use a footstrap on the rear corner, or a chicken line to keep you on the back...


OK. Now do us a favor and explain where, what, and how. Like where or what to buy. Where or how you install them. Footstrap and chicken line.


Booth items would only be meant to help while trapping out of course.

The foot strap we mount directly on the rear outboard corner of each hull - and chicken lines would run internally or across the rear beam with a bungee take-up system and tie onto the rear rudder castings - so that you can cleat yourself into the line, this requires some practice for using and two cleats mounted onto your trapeze harness spreader bar - I personally don't use them, only the footstrap - but the Euro's seem to prefer the chicken lines over footstraps for fear of ankle injuries.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:36 am 
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Location: Campbell, CA
Sounds like a chicken line is class legal. And, if I am understanding your post, it has been done as I had imagined; bungie retractor inside the rear cross bar. However, cleating on the harness?? I use the keyhole/ball harness for safety, not sure I want a cleat on my harness.

One of the foot-strap producers should consider a spring/detent/toggle approach to releasing the foot strap when loads exceed the approval of human tissue! Ski binding makers surely faced similar concerns.

I am focused on avoiding shroud injury, not avoiding capsizing which seems to be the aim of foot straps and non-cleated chicken lines. The injury seems to happen when hiking, If you are trapped, I do not think you are likely to hit the shroud; therefore I am thinking either pad the shroud, or the body part likely to hit the shroud.

Peace,

Dan Peake
Campbell, CA
2002 Tiger
2005 FX1
2002 H17 SE


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:46 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz
There's a 20 in our division rigged with chicken lines and I think he'll be here in SC this weekend for the Turkey Regatta. I'll point the boat out to you if you'd like.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:21 pm 
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Location: eureka,california
Dan
I use the DAKINE foot straps on my tiger. One on the cross bar but I am adding one to the back corner. I also have a pad over the Shroud cover. I have an extra set if you want them, I can drop them off at Jeremy's shop. Also I use a thin stainless plate for the inside of the hull where I added the foot straps. I'll be at Jeremy's shop on thursday if you want mt to drop off the plates and pads.

Who's boat did you get Dan?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:49 pm 
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Location: Campbell, CA
Rich, thanks for the generous offer! Before I go freeloading off you; I just picked up some nice canvas covered roof-rack pads, which I am modifying. If those don't pan out, I'll contact you to see if you've still got those available. At the very least, if I make it to Santa Cruz this weekend, I'd like to check out your shroud solution. Thursday is blocked: all-day field trip with my 3rd grader!

The boat I picked up was Tim's. I sailed it tonight. I had a great time drag-racing against Phillip. I did great; I took second every time!

Jeremy, Thanks. I'll try to touch bases with you this weekend.

Peace,

Dan Peake
Campbell, CA
2002 Tiger
2005 FX1
2003 H17 SE


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:13 pm 
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Location: eureka,california
Nice if you want a pentex stx I have the one Tim used to have 1881. I just bought new sails so now I have 3 sets.

I'm not going to make the racing this weekend. Have to attend a wedding , but will be at Havamega.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:00 am
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Location: Long Beach, CA
On my Tiger, when I had one, I had both the chicken line and the footstraps.

We started with a footstrap that went from the back of the rear crossbar to the deck behind it. That was too far forward for the big winds so we added a set to the very back of the boat.

The chicken line was a spectra line that bungeed into the rear crossbar with a hook on the end. DO NOT attach that to your harness! Only attach it to the trapeze of the boat.

You have to come down South and race with us next season!

Later,
Dan


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:13 pm 
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Dan I sent you an e-mail back. I still have the STX main.
Feel free to give me a call.

(707) 832-6865

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:31 pm 
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In those conditions when we don't dare to trap, we both use to sit on the hull, as far back as possible. The crew puts its forward foot against the shroud and is stable in case of a deacceleration. And as I am sitting right behind the crew, I am stopped by him. Works.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:55 pm 
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Location: Campbell, CA
Dan, I'd love to visit So Cal and do some sailing on my Tiger! I've never sailed outside of my area, so it would be an adventure. You may have told me in an email, but which boat did you transition to from the Tiger?

I've got a few mods to do to the Tiger to address the shroud issue, but until I do, I'm either on the wire, or crew has a foot securely on the shroud as Claus has suggested.

Dan Peake
Campbell, CA
2002 Tiger
2005 FX1
2003 H17 SE


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:36 am 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 4:43 am
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Location: Seal Beach California
Dan Delave what kind of boat are you racing now


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