Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:19 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Tiger Setup Tricks
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:27 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:17 am
Posts: 60
Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
At the moment I'm sailing my Tiger with the factory setup, i.e. the sheets and pulleys are in their factory configurations. You should also know that I'm a land-locked Tiger owner, the only one in the midwest, so I'm a little starved for the interchange; and the lake is frozen solid so the cabin fever is a little high. :lol: I understand that people are sailing with 'trick' setups, where they've altered the sheets and pulleys, maybe added groumets to the tramp, for a variety of reasons. Can you Tiger owners share those altered setups? Pictures, diagrams, and text would be handy to understand what you did, how you did it, and what it accomplished.

For example, the Tiger has an impressive amount of rope, but I understand that some have lenthened the sheets, cut the main in half, tied it to the jib sheet, and modified the forward pulley system to reduce the overall complexity of the Tiger sheeting, with the benefit of one sheet in the hand of the crew. But I'm not sure how to accomplish this, particularly the pulley system and what length should be used. I also know that many have additional advantage on the spinnaker sheet. Are there different ways to accomplish this?

I'd love to hear the chatter and see some pictures of what owners have done so I can prepare for next season. Thanks for your help.
[/img]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:56 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:00 am
Posts: 383
Location: Long Beach, CA
Sorry I do not have pictures of all that I did. Maybe I can get them to you the next time I go out sailing.

For now I will try to tell you about them.

I come from sailing a Hobie 20 and tried to make that boat as easy to sail as possible. By taking off cleats and replacing them with knots I was able to get two lines off the trampoline of that boat. It also saved the crew from many bruises. Before getting my own Miracle, I crewed for Wayne “da Legend” Shaffer for over three years on his 20, so I know about the pain that boats can inflict on crews.

When Eileen and I took delivery on the Tiger our first mission was to make the boat as crew friendly as we could.

First was to figure out how to make the trampoline less spoiled with lines. I was setting up the boat from scratch so I had no preconceived notions.

I do not use the adjustable trapeze system for the crew. The idea of these is to allow the crew to trap equally low going downwind as going upwind when they have to move sternward on the boat. We actually had it on there for the first couple of days as Eileen was curious about them. Turned out it was too hard to use and I got conked with it once, off it came.

I like the end pole snuffer so we do not have to worry about a tack-line for the spinnaker. Whether it is part of the halyard or separate it is another line. I made my own snuffer system and there is a post in this forum with a reference to the picture. No modes to the pole, except taking off the tack block.

There are some guys that are also rigging up a 1:2 spinnaker halyard. That means that for each foot the spin halyard comes in the spin will go up two. That is more complication that I am trying to avoid. They are impressive systems when they work.

I initially ran the spinnaker halyard and the sheet to the back of the boat, through a ring or pulley in order to stretch them out, thus avoiding knotting. Problem was that I kept sitting or standing on them when Eileen was trying to use them, so they are now to the grommets about the middle of the trampoline. This has made our gybes and sets much smoother.

I have replaced a lot of the pins near the spinnaker that require ringydingys with truss screws. I looked at anything that was a potential hook for the spinnaker and removed it or covered it. I watch a lot of sailors going around their boat with a roll of electricians tape. I have used vinyl cloth and hand stitched around most of the potential problems. I only have to use the tape at two points, I cannot figure out how to get around that. So far so good!

Later,
Dan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: RE:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:12 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:10 am
Posts: 4
Location: Virginia
I've got pictures of all kinds of trick set-ups.

Please email me and I'll send them to you.
tracievh@cox.net

Tracie
www.geocities.com/hobietigerpages/news.htm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:50 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:17 am
Posts: 60
Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
Thanks Tracie. My email address is ray.robert@mchsi.com. I appreciate you help.

Bruce Ray


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Set-up pictures
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:58 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:10 am
Posts: 4
Location: Virginia
http://www.thehobietigerpages.com/tricks.htm

some pictures can be found here.

Tracie


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:27 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 6:41 am
Posts: 1
We have devised a system similar to Gavin Colbys single sheeting self tacker system but we fel that ours works better I could not attatched a diagram but basicaly the self tacker system is all the same up untill the yellow sheet this is instead tied to a pad eye next to the hole on the beam and goes up to the block that has come down from the block at the pole and then goes down through the beam to the swivel cleat which has been bolted to the tramp.

If you want a diagram and some pictures you will have to e-mail me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: RE:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:14 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:40 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Israel
Hi Tracie, I am looking also to get some tips and tricks on how to set up our New Tiger properly for ricing.

I would appreciate if you can mail me these pictures to: luispi@inter.net.il or to luis@orad.tv

Thanks

Luis

8)
Tracievh wrote:
I've got pictures of all kinds of trick set-ups.

Please email me and I'll send them to you.
tracievh@cox.net

Tracie
www.geocities.com/hobietigerpages/news.htm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:22 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:58 pm
Posts: 102
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Revived this thread as I am also interested in some updated trick stuff.

_________________
Cheers
Alan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Tiger Bites
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:03 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:17 am
Posts: 60
Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
Okay, I'll throw my hat into the ring. But, I'm sorry, I have to head to the lake for a regatta. So I quickly wrote a list of my thoughts. Several areas to talk about: I've noticed new sailors are rigging or get their boats rigged wrong (including myself); there are modifications that I have done to my boat; there are things I'm considering doing to my rig; and there are things I've heard about and need more information before taking action.

I have a 2003 boat, which does not have the latest downhaul, tramp, snuffer, and jib setup. So my changes are relative to my boat. If you wish me to explain better I can, if you ask; or if others want to chime in by adding to the list; or if you just gotta say "you are just plain nuts" - that's great.

I usually avoid the complex changes and look for real issues and make simple, practical changes. I want to speed the boat up by reducing errors, easing confusion, defining crew roles better and giving each access with the minimum motion, reduce friction, a meaningful aerodynamic improvement, etc.

It needs to be a real "Tiger Bite" for me to fix it, not just a neat gizmo.

My list:

Common Rigging Mistakes
1). Didn’t pre-bend spinnaker pole
2). Did not adjust mainsheet block for easy cleating and un-cleating.
3). Put front bracing wires under spinnaker over, not under spinnaker pole
4). Mast rake – found most rigs to be fairly neutral, rather than lightly weather helm
5). Failure to release pressure on the hull by opening the hull plugs after use (read the label by the plugs)
6). Tighten the crossbars after sailing a new boat
7). Seems when diamond wires are off center by small amounts it can make a difference in the boat's performance when sailed to starboard versus port
8). When you come to shore check everything and retighten, always
9). Failed to understand that the main is the rear stay – could invert mast
10). Need ball on spinnaker halyard at head of sail to keep knot out of halyard block

Modifications
1). Lengthened jib sheets and downhaul -- currently tie both to trapeze, may change
2). Pig tails to hold forward trapeze toward outside of boat
3). Reversed spinnaker sheets into a continuous line, instead of free ends, and run through pulley/ring tied to rear of tramp
4). Run retraction line through a ring on rear of tramp
5). Double stacked jib sheet pulleys, with twist shackle, while using a smaller diameter jib sheet line.
6). Smaller diameter mainsheet and a bit shorter seems better
7). Removed fairlead on top of spinnaker halyard cam block.
8). Telltales on main, tried on the spinnaker but can’t make them stick
9). Bigger block on Spinnaker tack line, with stand up spring underneath
10). Sail Kote for spinnaker, once, didn’t really notice a difference in ease of snuff – blowing the spinnaker seems to work better
11). Fairlead in rear of self-tacker to hold/center preventer line
12). Started wearing T-shirts or spray jackets over my life vest to stop the vest from getting hung up in trap lines, outhauls, and so forth

Considerations
1). Adjustable hiking stick weight seems too much during tacks – anything lighter but adjustable?
2). Considering running bungee through forward cross bar to take up slack on jib sheet or downhaul instead of using the trapeze for tie-off
3). Considering adjustable mast rotation
4). New downhaul ratio – should one change to the new?
5). Sure would be nice to do something to get that other trapeze the heck out of the way! Away ideas?

Heard
1). That Jacque and Greg cut mainsheet in half. Modified jib sheet to one line and tie to main traveler line.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tiger Bites
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:34 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:18 pm
Posts: 73
Location: League City, Texas, USA
Some of the stuff off my boat (mostly copied from John Tomko and Dave Mimlitch - my Texas Tiger buddies):

Spinnaker tack and halyard
Separate spinnaker tack and halyard lines - lets the crew pull the tack between the A mark and the offset mark.

Use a spin lock on the front cross beam for the spin halyard (turning block immediately in front of it) and add a block to the trampoline directly back from the spin lock at the same distance from the cross beam as the block for the retrieval end of the halyard. Crew can then hoist the chute from a kneeling or standing position and the turning block on the tramp ensures the spin lock is pulled down and cleated

Keep halyard/retrieval line as short as possible to avoid the skipper or crew hanging it up. Ours runs between the two turning blocks with a few inches of slack - just enough to avoid pulling a crease in the chute with the retrieval line in light wind.

Tack line is internal to the spinnaker pole and exits about a foot from the front cross beam. It goes though a spinlock on the cross bar that is angled to towards where the line enters the pole. The pivoting part of the spinlock is drilled on top and a small line runs from this over the front of the cross bar, under the tramp, behind the dolphin striker post and out the tramp grommet for the self tacker traveller and is tied off to the port end of the front cross beam. This allows the tack line to be pulled out from the starboard side of the boat while out on the wire, and released from the either port or starboard side of the boat when doing the take down.

Mast rotator
Mast rotator is 3:1 Nacra F18/20 style with cleats at either end of the front cross bar and can be adjusted by the crew while out on the wire. Good for tweaking when distance racing, over kill for buoy racing.

Downhaul
Down haul is 8:1 with 2:1 cascade (making 16:1). Works great. It is not rigged the same as Hobie do on the later 2005 model boats. I use the heart shape shackle and two double blocks on the bottom of the main from the stock 8:1 system my boat came with.

I put jam cleats on either side of the mast 6" up from the base and ran lines from these through the outside pulleys attached to the bottom of the main and tied a 16mm pulley to the end of each line. I pull the lines through the cleats until these 16mm pulleys are jammed up against the double pulleys.

The 8:1 system is then threaded from the swivel cleat to the 16mm pulley (which become the 2:1), down to the outside turning block at the base of the mast, up to the inside pulley on the double block, down to the center turning block at the base of the mast, and continuing on the other side as a mirror image.

I replaced the swivel cam cleats with swivel spin locks - much easier for the crew to cleat and uncleat with the spinnaker sheet draped over the down haul line.

Using the front cross bar to tidy lines
on each side a shock cord stretches across to a turning pulley and back across. The end of the jib sheet and downhaul are tied to this and this sucks them into the end of the cross bar - keeping the tramp cleaner.

Jib sheet
Replaced the stock line with skinny mafioli swift cord. It is easy on the hands and runs through the blocks very easily (good for light air). It is also long enough that the crew can play it from the back of the tramp while reaching (a good safety feature when beam reaching in high wind in distance races).

Spinnaker sheeting
Added ratchematic turning blocks to the front cross bar in line with the hiking straps on each side. This gives much better wrap on the turning blocks on each hull and so better holding power to give my crew and easier time. Added a turning block on a shock cord attached to the rear cross bar. This sucks all the slack out of the sheet when bouy racing.

The stock spin sheet I use as a main sheet. For bouy racing we use a 50' of maffioli swiftcord spin sheet (8mm I think).

For distance racing we use a similar sheet that is longer to allow doubler blocks attached via pigtails to the clew of the spin. There is a figure of 8 stopper knot in the spin sheet that pulls up against this block. To use the doubler we pull back this knot to a hook attached to each side shroud chain plate by a short length of spectra. A length of shock cord from the top of this hook is tied 12" up the side shroud to hold the hook out of the way when not is use. This doubler gives the crew an easier time on long distance races (100 miles plus)

Main out-haul
Tie a knot in the out-haul line between the jam cleat and the pulley on the boom and adjust it's position to give just enough chord in the bottom of the main for sailing down wind in light air. This makes releasing the downhaul and no brainer for the crew.

We rigged a preventer line from a foot forward of the end of boom to the ring on the clew of the main. This is adjusted so that when the main and down-haul are cranked to the max the out-haul just has the bottom of the main snug tight. Otherwise if you pull the out-haul in tight before you crank on the main and down-haul you end up pulling very hard on the foot of the main which isn't necessary or good for the sail. This also has the benefit that when you ease the main and down haul it will release a little out-haul - automatically putting a small amount of shape into the bottom of the main for light wind conditions.

Skippers trap wire
I ran the shock cord out the hole on the tramp to an eye strap (the type with a smooth ring inside the arch), located at the outside edge of the hull. This holds the trap out the way when maneuvering on the tramp in light air, and it is on just the right place to hook-up and get out on the wire in heavy air.

Chris

_________________
2008 Hobie Tiger


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:31 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:00 am
Posts: 383
Location: Long Beach, CA
Skippers Trap Wire: I drilled a hole in the outside edge of the hull and put a tied peice of vectron line with a washer and silicone glue. Pull the vectron loop from the inside out with a piece of thread or dental floss. Tie it to something to keep it taught untill it dries.

Jib and Downhaul both run thru the front crossbar. I do not use bungee to keep it in. Instead I make the lines so they are long enough to use from the wire and that is it. There is a little that hangs out but is has not been any problem.

Spinnaker blocks are replaced with auto rachets at the back and run about 1/2 way up to the front crossbar through new 44M harken blocks without ratcheting. I like to have as much bite on the line as possible for my crew. We were running them to the front Xbar before but there were too many problems with them there. These are mounted exactly as the Trapeze is mounted.

Spinnaker sheet and halyard run only about 1/2 way back on the trampoline so I do not get tangled in them during a jibe. I have an alley to move back and forth that only has a mainsheet in it, and that is mine anyway.

Spinnaker halyard swivel cleat is on the mast about 3 1/2 feet above the deck and mounted upside down for convienience.

End pole snuffer, so no tack line.

Later,
Dan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Tack Line Knot
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:32 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:17 am
Posts: 60
Location: Clear Lake, Iowa
I heard that there is a "secert" knot for the tack line. I heard this from a new Tiger owner after when he was visited by fellow Tiger, but more experienced, owner. Apparently it is tied right at pulley on the spinnaker pole. What is its purpose? Is it intended to prevent the chute from going to far into the bag? If so, does that mean that this concept will only work with a certain size of pulley?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:30 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:00 am
Posts: 383
Location: Long Beach, CA
I think the "secret knot" that you are refering to is for the one line halyard/tack system that the boat comes with stock. The knot prevents the spinnaker from getting away during a douse. The knot allows the spinnaker tack line to go out so far, make it just long enough to allow the tack to get to the snuffer. If the knot is not there the tack line can go so far back that you could be flying it backwards while it is still full. I have seen is happen.

Later,
Dan


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group