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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:44 pm 
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Location: Thunder Bay, ON
Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to say that I just posted a detailed trip report from a summer kayak adventure to White Otter Castle in the Places To Kayak section of the forum. If you are interested in finding out how well two fully loaded Hobie Adventure kayaks handle rough water and a remote Canadian 4-day kayak camping excursion you can view the trip report here:

http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=18870&p=91074#p91074

Also - I am interested in purchasing a kayak cart this upcoming spring. Having one would have made my life much easier as described in my trip report. I would like the cart to support the weight of my Hobie Adventure, plus up to about 120lbs of gear. Would it be advisable to carry the gear in the cart? Or would it be better to simply cart the kayak separately?

The following cart looks promising. I like the "Tuff-Tire" option, as it appears to be maintenance free and eliminates puncture issues. However, the cart can only carry a maximum weight of 176 lbs.

http://www.wheeleez.com/kayakcanoecart-tuff-tire.php

Any thoughts? Recommendations that might fit my needs?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you might have.

Take care,

Mike


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:44 pm 
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Location: Homosassa, Florida
Great trip report. Thanks

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:23 pm 
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Location: Escondido
Mike, great trip report, excellent photos and obviously a grand adventure!

Both of the Hobie carts will carry a pretty good load. the newest Trax cart is rated up to 176 lb. (I've overloaded it to 190 lb. on smooth ground). It's great for uneven terrain and soft sand -- rolls easily. The down side -- it cost a bit more, you can get a flat and it's hard to extract from under your loaded kayak in the water. If you get this one, make sure you get the new more durable, easy rolling, higher capacity wheels (shown here).
Image

I use the standard cart most of the time -- light and rugged
Image
It easily hauls the 115 lb. Adventure Island (shown here with my older narrow frame cart)
Image
and an Oasis with ballast and gear (about 140 lbs). I've hauled as much as 190 lbs with it for short distances. No problem with flat repairs, easy to extract and insert in the water (it also floats), but doesn't give as much of a cushioned ride as the Trax and doesn't work nearly as well in soft sand.

How much you can load on your boat probably depends on the distance and terrain. Stringy has much more experience in this area, both with Hobie and custom carts, and hauls his boats around on carts all the time. Perhaps he will share some thoughts on the matter.

Looking forward to your next trip report! 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:31 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Mike,
I'm a big fan of a modified Hobie Trax cart. I have the earlier model which has stood up well to hundreds of kilometres wheeling my AI as an Adventure and occasionally as the fully rigged AI. I like the ease of use of a scupper cart over a strap on cart and the groove in the axle end of the Trax allowed easy swapping of wheels to suit the terrain.
I was going to direct you to the post where I modified the Trax but it has been corrupted and no longer contains the details so here is a summary of what I did.
I chose the Trax cart because of its solid axle construction, wider stance and balloon wheels.
Image
The original wheels were only good in sand and needed replacing. The solid 1/2" axle can take any wheel and the Hobie heavy duty pneumatic upgrade wheels were easily modified to fit using a humpback or "R" clip:
Image
Image

It's very important when using a scupper cart to ensure the scuppers are supported. Roadrunners tennis ball support is a brilliant idea that has allowed me to transport my kayaks long distances over varying terrain with no damage to the hull. 8)
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14028&hilit=cart

Also check out this post:
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=13715&p=79942&hilit=cart#p79942

My next cart will be the newer Trax cart with the bent frame and better balloon wheels. I will modify it to fit either the pneumatic wheels or the newer solid poly wheels from Wheeleez, (though I have never had a puncture with the pneumatic wheels), and add the hobie cart bushings with half rubber balls for shock absorbtion. See Roadrunners excellent review here:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16179&p=84962&hilit=cart#p84962


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:02 pm 
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Location: Thunder Bay, ON
Thanks Roadrunner and Stringy for the useful and detailed replies. I'm wondering if the newer Trax Cart might be a good option. My only concern would be damage to the scupper holes. With some extra weight in the Adventures - might this place more stress on the scuppers and lead to damage - cracking of the scuppers? I really like the convenience of using the scuppers - but I wonder if a more conventional cart (i.e., cradle and straps) might be playing it a bit more safe - especially over some rougher terrain and with extra weight. A cart would really come in handy, as I'm pondering my next expedition. Maybe I'll launch from Ignace, ON and explore the 15 portages that Mr. McOuat carried his windows across described in my trip report. :D

Thanks again,

Mike


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:19 am 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Quetico wrote:
. A cart would really come in handy, as I'm pondering my next expedition.
Mike

Mike,
I couldn't imagine doing a trip like that without a cart! :shock:
I'd be going with the latest Trax cart and an extra set of heavy duty wheels so you have all terrains covered.
In my opinion the scuppers are the strongest part of the hull. I have had no scupper damage at all and I have wheeled my kayaks a long way. If you are careful and ensure the cart tubes extend all the way through the scuppers and that the hull is evenly supported using Roadrunner's suspension ball idea then I can't see a problem. I would be more concerned with hull flexing and distortion caused by the conventional under hull cart.
I have read stories of scupper damage caused by carts but this hasn't been my experience at all and I would have wheeled first my Oasis and then AI/Adv over 1000 km's in the last 3 years. I have had kayaks tip over, and get stuck on obstacles whilst wheeling and still no damage. I wonder if faulty manufacturing that causes paper thin plastic scuppers is the cause of most problems?
If you think the conventional cart is the way to go though then have a look at the Hobie Universal cart PN 80041.
I was going to get one of those if the Trax cart didn't work out. It is a very sturdy cart. I'm a bit surprised that Hobie only rate it to 150lbs as the design and welded stainless construction would appear bullet-proof and stronger than any folding aluminium cart.
Maybe the lower rating is out of concern for hull distortion? :?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:47 am 
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Location: Thunder Bay, ON
Hi Stringy,

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will purchase the new Trax cart. I noticed that Hobie sells a Kayak Cart Post Collar clamp kit that seems to function similarly to the tennis balls. Would this be adequate - or do you still recommend the balls? I have lots of tennis balls here at home and would be O.K. with this modification either way.

Actually - I tried out and purchased the following kayak portage yoke http://ostromoutdoors.com/canoekayak-canoe-kayak-accessories-c-22_38.html. It worked very well and I was planning on using them to carry my Adventures across portages, in part because some parks (e.g., Quetico Park) here don't allow canoe/kayaks carts on their portages. However, in other settings it would be a real advantage to not have to unload gear and carry the kayaks each time a portage was encountered. That's what makes the Hobie cart so appealing.

Thanks again,

Mike


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:39 am 
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Location: Escondido
The newest carts now come with the post collars included. The collars are made of hard plastic and provide a single point of contact. This seems to work well enough for unloaded boats and short distances, but is akin to driving your car with no suspension -- jarring.

Here's a good discussion on the use of collars and balls.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14028
Stringy's double ball system is also shown here in more detail and may offer the best protection for a heavily weighted boat.

The great feature of the scupper location is that part of the load is transferred through to the cargo well in addition to the hull bottom. Most scupper failures have been as a result of the cart not extending all the way through the scuppers. This happens occasionally for a variety of reasons -- older shorter cart legs, carts not fully seated, roll overs (with the cart backing out), etc. The internal tubes cannot handle the lateral forces exerted by the tips of the cart legs, but the upper deck surface can with no problem. The newest carts have longer legs, domed tops and positive locks so the cart cannot back out accidentally -- great improvements. 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:56 pm 
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Thanks Roadrunner! I'm sold on the tennis ball/rubber ball modification and the updated carts. :)

Mike


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 9:33 am 
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Hello Stringy;
In the first of your 3 pics, it looks like you have extended the shaft to make your cart wider. My "older" Trax cart has the shaft welded and chromed to the verticals. What did you do? What is the length of the axle or the tire ctc distance? My cart tire ctc distance is 17-1/2" (44.5 cm) Are you showing modifications to the Hobie 80043 "Plug-In Heavy Duty Upgrade Kit"? It states that it "Will not fit current, standard or Trax carts".
Hobie is taking the safe position and stating:
<<You really should not pull a fully loaded kayak on a scupper cart. We would not recommend a "portage" of any real length on any plug in cart. Plug in carts are for short distance transportation typically from car to waters edge. I would be especially concerned at the weights you estimate. We do have a heavy duty cart now that is estimated at 225 lbs max... still over any rough terrain or long term... you risk damage to the hull or scuppers. >> The pic sent to me was the Hobie 80041 "Universal" cart with a capacity of 150 lbs.
Unfortunately, Hobie gives pics of their parts in some cases but I have yet to find dimensional details and specs like weight, capacity.
I would like to hear from other users who are "tripping" with their AI's. For example, there is a trip/race around the state of Florida where AI owners participate. There are "portages" along the way and the stipulation is that whatever you use for the land segment must be carried on the kayak. I would expect these carts to be durable, light and able to be broken down and packed away.


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 3:59 pm 
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Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
G'Day kmac,
As far as I'm aware there was only one model of Trax1 cart. Mine is stainless (not chromed) with an overall axle length of app 55cm so the ctc distance of 44.5 with Balloon tyres would be about right. I have not widened the axle.
The 80043 kit is what I used. It does fit but you have to shorten the supplied aluminium hub bearing (easily cut with a hacksaw or tube cutter) and then add tube spacers, washers and R clip as detailed above.
In my experience once the hull is properly supported on the scuppers with the suspension balls even a fully loaded kayak is OK to cart. I have wheeled mine long distances with no damage. Take careful note of Roadrunners provisos mentioned above though.
If you are concerned you may be interested in a profiled foam support.
Slaughter has made a nice mod to his cart where he has fully profiled the hull bottom with boogie board foam that runs the width of his cart.
Care to chime in old fella? (53! :shock: :wink: )


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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 4:15 am 
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Location: Lake Macquarie NSW AUSTRALIA
Hi fellas. Just thought I would add my 2 bobs worth into the cart discussion. I tried the tennis ball type supports to my cart to get the hull up off the cart cross bar, but I thought that I could go a bit further with supporting the hull. So I grabbed one of the kids old boggie boards, a jig saw and a 5L keg of Heinicen and came up with this. I used a heavy wire coathanger to get the right hull profile and then transfered that shape to a piece of cardboard to make sure it was right, before tracing it onto the boggie board. Although Heinicen and jigsaws are probably not the best combination for projects like this, I am pretty happy with the results and can load the AI to the hilt with gear without any hull deflection.

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:00 am 
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Location: Escondido
Very nice support system! 8)


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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 1:30 pm 
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Hi Slaughter,
I like what you've done to modify the hull support and what also caught my eye was the wheels you used. Where did you find them and what diameter are they? Also, do you know what the capacity of the wheels are and if they float? They look like they'll handle more than the cart itself! They resemble some of the wheels I've seen on hand pull golf caddies but a bit more robust.

Thanks for sharing your ideas and the great post.
Cheers,

GR8 Laker


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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:21 pm 
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GR8 Laker wrote:
Hi Slaughter,
I like what you've done to modify the hull support and what also caught my eye was the wheels you used. Where did you find them and what diameter are they? Also, do you know what the capacity of the wheels are and if they float? They look like they'll handle more than the cart itself! They resemble some of the wheels I've seen on hand pull golf caddies but a bit more robust.

Thanks for sharing your ideas and the great post.
Cheers,

GR8 Laker


Thanks fellas, and very perseptive GR8 Laker. You're right, they are golf buggy wheels. But frankly, I don't hold out too much hope for them. I pinched them off my sons golf buggy ( what a Dad, cuts up his boogy board then pinches his wheels ) then drilled them out to get the right shaft size. It's a plastic bush which is OK, and the wheels seem to be able to take the weight without deflection, and the wide tyre is OK over hardish sand but once it boggs into the softer stuff it's like an anchor and the tyre can pull off the rim. So for 90% of applications it's pretty good. What I also like about it is that it stores nicely stable and vertical behind the seat on the blue rubber and on the top side rails of the AI hull.

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