Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:24 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:47 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:59 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
Finally organised someone to take a foto of my AI Foresail rig.
An extra 22 Sq Ft of Sail is just the thing to get you scooting along on those light days, here I am doing 8.5 MPH in a following breeze so light it hardly ripples the surface, and no modification of the Hobie design was necessary.
I use this PA rig while in Adventure mode so leave it on in Island configuration as it is self-deploying via the Bungee stays and does not interfere with normal AI operation.
Yes, you can Sail across the wind by setting the Upwind mast pointing at the mast-top and drawing the Downwind mast back and behind the Mainsail so it works like an, "Upside-down jib", this balances the AI's natural tendency to turn upwind.

Don't try this at home if your helmsan's office is already busy enough as you will have one more set of lines coming into the cockpit but for ppl who like to squeeze the max performance out of their ship the gain is well worth the extra fiddling.


Image

Pacific Action Sails: http://www.pacificaction.com/
Independant reviews: http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/showRev ... ?prod=1583
Build your own V-Sail: http://topkayaker.net/TopKayakerShop/in ... Path=85_92

_________________
Fair Skies, Max.
Image


Last edited by skymax on Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:57 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 811
Location: Sydney - Parramatta
Hmmm, interesting you can use it across the wind too. Thanks for posting.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:06 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:59 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
Cowsgomoo wrote:
Hmmm, interesting you can use it across the wind too. Thanks for posting.


G'Day Cow, no worries.
If anyone decides to do this I can post some more fotos showing best mount positions for the Shackles.
the whole thing can be unclipped and moved to another boat in minutes without any tools.
If you have Two boats, (who doesn't), just order an extra set of mounting bits, saddles, mini-carabiners, nylon buckles.
(There is an SOT version and a Turtledeck version of the mounting kit, specify SOT for the AI, all rivets and mounting hardware supplied.)

_________________
Fair Skies, Max.
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:29 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:32 am
Posts: 1785
Location: Calga NSW, Australia
More photos would be great Max. I've been waiting for you to post details ever since you first mentioned the PA sail.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:01 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:59 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
Sorry, I don't have any detail shots yet or any Reaching fotos but I will post in this Thread and put 'em up in a cupla weeks.
The Adventure mode foto shows where the control Lines pass under the forward AKA via the Saddle and its attaching Clip so there is no chafing against the AKA.
I have added an 8" x 2" strip of Hook-side adhesive Velcro to the deck to prevent any rub-marks on the prow by the rotating Nylon base, prolly wasn't strictly necessary.
Image

In this shot, (including a cupla Mates), you can see the PA Sail folded back at an angle, so it doesn't obstruct Pedalling, and held in place by a short length of bungee tied to the inner-AKA.
The "Floating-cleat" system that comes standard is a bit fiddly at first but is easier with experience, or just spend more on some properly mounted line-cleats if you want one-handed operation.
Image
If you wanted to just use this Sail only for your Adventure or another kayak then it would prolly be better mounted more rearward or closer to the Center of Pressure, bearing in mind that it folds back towards you and adequate clearance must be achieved to keep the Stowed sail out of your way. (Not a prob in the AI as it lies down slightly diagonally on the AKA when stowed.) The smaller/shorter PA sails would be even easier to Stow.

_________________
Fair Skies, Max.
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:42 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 7:34 pm
Posts: 94
Pacific Island's 22 sq ft rigs come in two models -- one for sit in kayaks and one for sit on tops. Did you get the sit on top model? I don't know the difference between the two models and the PI web site is not helpful on this. Are they strickly segregated? Or do you think the sit on top one could be made to work with a fiberglass sea kayak?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:46 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 7:34 pm
Posts: 94
what is the purpose of the red line that passes through the stern of the starboard pontoon? Is this part of the pacific action sail, or something else?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:21 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2231
Location: Maui, Hawaii
The "red line" looks like a AI barber hauler for holding the sail "out" for better downwind sailing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:21 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 7:34 pm
Posts: 94
re: barber hauler -- I wondered that too. Maybe that's what it is. I wonder if you get the sail out much with it rigged through the rear of the amas.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:29 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2231
Location: Maui, Hawaii
It works well in lighter winds, but complicates the AI by adding additional line(s). Also harder to handle the AI in gusts when using it. But on a steady light wind day, it is an advantage. I made one but don't use it much.

I carry about 4-5 feet of light line (60# working load) with a small SS "S" hook attached. I can get almost the same effect without having to rig the barber hauler (about 18' of line and 3-4 pulleys).

But, if you want to race me down wind on a light wind day, I might think about rigging it up! :)
Image
Image

_________________
Image
http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:18 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:59 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
timo wrote:
Pacific Island's 22 sq ft rigs come in two models -- one for sit in kayaks and one for sit on tops. Did you get the sit on top model? I don't know the difference between the two models and the PI web site is not helpful on this. Are they strickly segregated? Or do you think the sit on top one could be made to work with a fiberglass sea kayak?


As above, I reccomend the SOT model for the AI, as I have not seen the other one I do not know if it is critical or not, I do know that I cannot see any reason why the SOT model would not fit a standard kayak turtledeck I think it is mainly the length of the sheets, however the mounting kits are available separately so you can have one of each if you like.

_________________
Fair Skies, Max.
Image


Last edited by skymax on Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:20 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:59 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
timo wrote:
what is the purpose of the red line that passes through the stern of the starboard pontoon? Is this part of the pacific action sail, or something else?


it is indeed a Barber Hauler which I was not using when this shot was taken as I was constantly turning to get into position for the photo.
if I was using the BH I would have been going even faster.

_________________
Fair Skies, Max.
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:33 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:59 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
timo wrote:
re: barber hauler -- I wondered that too. Maybe that's what it is. I wonder if you get the sail out much with it rigged through the rear of the amas.


You get it out far enough to notice a definite improvement in downwind speed as the standard sail simply bellys and as a result is much reduced in area.
The "complex" style BH I use also allows more control of the sail foot by being able to haul the "virtual block" forward when the sail is partially furled.
can be tightened so it draws the double block forward and down, (This Photo), it is now similar to moving the Sheeting Block position forward a la RoadRunner's post, "Better Rigging For Your AI".
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=4755

With this system you can, to an extent, alter the camber of the sail foot without changing the angle of the sail to the boat significantly and having to make the corresponding steering adjustment. You can see this in the attached image.
Sort of like a variable geometry wing
Image

A popular and much simpler, cheaper and easier to operate BH is achieved by having a line of Bungee with a hook permanently attached to the AMA stern saddle which manually replaces the main sheet when downwind.

I don't find it complex as I like continually having things to do and like tweaking the max out of the boat, I have Six lines coming into the cockpit, wheeeee! ( And it makes me faster than the other AI in town :D ).

I don't use Pedals when sailing so everything just floats around in the Well, no prob.

_________________
Fair Skies, Max.
Image


Last edited by skymax on Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:25 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 5:06 am
Posts: 1580
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW AUSTRALIA
The first photo really shows how much extra wind you can catch. Have you done any permormance comparisons Max ?

_________________
Image

Don't take life too seriously................it ain't permanent.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:43 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:59 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
Slaughter wrote:
The first photo really shows how much extra wind you can catch. Have you done any permormance comparisons Max ?


This is a good question, i don't really know to what extent peformance is enhanced, I may not be able to easily quantify that.
My strictly objective side admits that approx 40% more sail area doesn't necessarily equate to 40% more thrust.
I can say that after sailing the AI since 2007 that the boat is felt to accelerate when the new Sail is deployed in light breezes, i will watch my GPS next time.

_________________
Fair Skies, Max.
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group