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 Post subject: Tiger righting systems
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:51 am
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Location: San Diego
Looking for feedback and recommendations on righting systems for a Hobie Tiger. Considering a pole righting system. Would appreciate any pros and cons you can share.

Thanks! Luckydog


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:16 pm 
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Don't use any of them. I run the downhall under the tramp and it pops up on deck just near the dagger board case where it cleats. (The crew found this much easier). Whenever we are over, we just grab the downhall and lean back. IMHO righting most catamarans is more technique than brute force/weight.

Michael

luckydog wrote:
Looking for feedback and recommendations on righting systems for a Hobie Tiger. Considering a pole righting system. Would appreciate any pros and cons you can share.

Thanks! Luckydog


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:13 pm 
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Location: Clinton Lake Lawrence, KS
THANK YOU MIKE! :D

I just checked the tensile strength of the 1/4" line I bought for my new downhaul, it is 2,920 lbs. I had a long talk with the Vanguard rep. earlier this spring, when we had a 160 pound high performance skiff. He asked me if I wore gloves. I hesitated and said well yes but I didn't feel like it was necessary (I just happened to keep my pair when we sold the H16) He said if your not wearing gloves your lines are too big. We then got into the whys are wherefores of all this low stretch, pre-stretched, cored and covered lines, all completely new to me. In righting the little Vector the cunningham and vang lines are hanging over the side, off their cleats, right there at the daggerboard, so it was a natural to grab them to right it. My previous posts reveal great fear and agony I went through in getting a righting line installed on my 18. In the back of my mind I always felt it a necessary evil because of the potential drag it creates, because of its size. Granted they are nice for the newbie when trapezeing, but I'm thinking of taking mine off. Even at 400 pounds, a couple of wraps around one "gloved" hand should be enough to get her on her feet again.

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IMHO righting most catamarans is more technique than brute force/weight.


Red Hot comments Mike

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:44 pm 
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Location: League City, Texas, USA
RedHotMike wrote:
Don't use any of them. I run the downhall under the tramp and it pops up on deck just near the dagger board case where it cleats. (The crew found this much easier). Whenever we are over, we just grab the downhall and lean back. IMHO righting most catamarans is more technique than brute force/weight.

Michael


What is your combined crew weight and your crews strength? At 312 lb we can right the boat easily with the righting line, but need it to get nearly horizontal to the water for enough leverage.

Chris.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:42 pm 
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flumpmaster wrote:
RedHotMike wrote:
Don't use any of them. I run the downhall under the tramp and it pops up on deck just near the dagger board case where it cleats. (The crew found this much easier). Whenever we are over, we just grab the downhall and lean back. IMHO righting most catamarans is more technique than brute force/weight.

Michael


What is your combined crew weight and your crews strength? At 312 lb we can right the boat easily with the righting line, but need it to get nearly horizontal to the water for enough leverage.

Chris.


My normal crew weight is up around 380 lb and quite strong however usually only one of us is righting the boat while the other is scrambling around getting things ready to get back on track again. I will admit though you do need some weight if the wind is too light to blow the sail up again. Ie always bring your righting line with you in the tramp pocket (it's required in the rules anyway)

Michael


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 Post subject: Tiger righting systems
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:31 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Denver, CO
I had the opportunity to right my Tiger for the first time last weekend. Really, no special equipment other than a righting line and good technique are needed. The boat drifted around so the mast was pointing to windward. I got on the bow and swam it around so the bow was pointing to windward while the crew leaned on the righting line (he was the lighter of the two of us). The wind filled in nicely under the main. I then swam back and added some pressure on the dagger, legs still in the water, and up she came, still pointed into the wind.

The wind was blowing around ten knots, and our total crew weight was about 340 lbs. We weren't applying as much leverage as we could have. The wind did most of the work. Overall, an easier job than I was expecting.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:51 am
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Location: San Diego
Thanks everyone for your feedback! I haven't been able to post for awhile. Will be getting my newly aquired used tiger in the water next week. I'll be running equipped with a basic righting line. We'll see how much practice I get using it!
This is great site and again I appreciate everyone's posts.

Greg


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:00 am
Posts: 383
Location: Long Beach, CA
Luckydog:

I do not think that I know you. I just looked and saw that you reside in San Diego. I am the unofficial social director of the Western area Tiger and Formula 18 fleet. If you would like to be on the email list of what is going on send me an email. Who's boat did you buy? Maybe I know you and do not recognize your handle.

Later,
Dan
email: DDelave "@" AOL.com


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:33 pm 
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Location: League City, Texas, USA
JeffBecker wrote:
I had the opportunity to right my Tiger for the first time last weekend. Really, no special equipment other than a righting line and good technique are needed. The boat drifted around so the mast was pointing to windward. I got on the bow and swam it around so the bow was pointing to windward while the crew leaned on the righting line (he was the lighter of the two of us). The wind filled in nicely under the main. I then swam back and added some pressure on the dagger, legs still in the water, and up she came, still pointed into the wind.

The wind was blowing around ten knots, and our total crew weight was about 340 lbs. We weren't applying as much leverage as we could have. The wind did most of the work. Overall, an easier job than I was expecting.


I'd be careful of swimming the mast round - in big wind the boat can get away from you and travel down wind faster than you can swim. I've seen this happen (I picked the guy up out the water). When we flip the first priority is to get someone hiking back from the dolphin striker to stop her turning turtle. The other person checks the main and jib are uncleated and then pulls the spin back into the snuffer if it was up when we went over.

Next we get the bow pointed 45 degrees to the wind by moving toward the front of the hull. This makes it dig in and lifts the transom, allowing the boat to pivot without having to swim the mast. Then with the righting line thrown over the hull up in the air we hike out (crew leaning on my chest) and she pops back up.

In really big wind (>25 knots) the boat tends to move forwards in the water, making it hard to get back on board. One of us floats under the tramp (maintaining contact with the hull is easy on the 2005 tramp design) and steers the boat into the wind from the rudder arm whilst the other person climbs on when the boat comes to a halt. They then hold her close to the wind while the person in the water at the back of the boat grabs the skippers trap line and hauls himself aboard.

Chris.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:39 pm
Posts: 433
Location: West Texas
I would take good-natured issue with the proposal "If you're not wearing gloves your lines are too big."

Earlier this year I was on an H18 with another member of this board who shall remain nameless ( ;) ) when we capsized and turtled. He only had like, 1/4" line for righting and we were able to get it up from the turtled position to just capsized; but by that time our hands (even with gloves) were so tired and beat from hanging on the thin line that we couldn't get it righted the rest of the way without help from (sob) a jet ski. :oops:

If he'd had bigger line it would never have been an issue. Obviously the 1/4" line was plenty STRONG to right the boat, but the weak link are the hands, gloves or no gloves. Gloves definately help, but there's a limit. That's why I'm very happy with the 3/4" docking line I use for righting purposes on my boats. :) With two people I can get the boat up almost as fast as I flipped it, and as far as my hands are concerned I might as well have been sheeting the main for a few seconds. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:44 am 
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hmm im going with jamie here on the glove issue,

i sail without gloves, without shoes. This is partly because im still a student and cant blow off that kinda money, and also because now ive developed the callouses to keep my hands from blistering. on the boats down at the club, we use a good 1/2 inch rope as the righting line, with knots put in it for the harness to hook on. I find that using a decent thickness actually saves ur hands, and gives ur wet slippery hands more traction on the rope.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:43 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:39 pm
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Location: West Texas
I can't imagine sailing without gloves, man. That's just nuts. Definately worth $30 for a good pair. I was just saying that wearing gloves doesn't make a tiny righting line a good idea. ;)

Jim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:04 pm 
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hahaha...too late now :?

i started sailing without gloves...and now sail always without gloves...i raise the sail, (grabbing the metal wire) and so on, without gloves, and never have a problem with my hands...i think its just way too ripped up to be noticed!

unfortunately shaking hands with a woman becomes difficult because its as if shes grabbed a sharp saw in her hand.


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 Post subject: Gloves
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:18 pm 
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Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
Anyone use cycling gloves, not the cheapy Chinese leather kind, the lycra artificial leather kind? Just finished my third year with a $20 pair, and I doubt I will use them next season.

Agree that to avoid Armadillo skin, one needs to sail with gloves. Main thing is safety.

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: Gloves
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:18 pm
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Location: League City, Texas, USA
John Lunn C A wrote:
Anyone use cycling gloves, not the cheapy Chinese leather kind, the lycra artificial leather kind? Just finished my third year with a $20 pair, and I doubt I will use them next season.

Agree that to avoid Armadillo skin, one needs to sail with gloves. Main thing is safety.

Cheers


I use cheap orange woven work gloves (the kind with the rubber lines moulded into the palms and fingers). The cost a few bucks from the Home Depot. We cut the fingers off to keep manual dexterity. They work great (several teams used them on the Great Texas - 300 mile race) and last about a season.

Chris.

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