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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:11 pm 
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From the America's Cup 2010 Race 1 Summary: (Oracle Trimaran beat Alinghi Catamaran)

"even when sailing bare-headed after the Americans dropped their jib and showed less drag, greater speed."

Has anyone tried this with a Hobie?
Would this be an advantage for a Hobie 20? Tiger? Wild Cat?

With a Hobie 20 with the big main, I could see how in a heavier wind furling the jib may actually help but with the size of our jibs, the drag may be worse with it furled.

Oracle also stalled above the start line just before the Gun- Makes me feel better for these pros doing what happened to me a few times last year in light winds.

Full Report is here:

http://www.cupinfo.com/en/americas-cup- ... report.php

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Hobie 20 #916 San Jose CA 2000 Alter Cup boat
Hobie 18 #916 Santa Cruz CA 1989 Worlds Boat
Hobie 16 #16 San Jose CA (Jordan) 2005 Custom Main
Hobie 16 #54466 Calling Lake Alta Tequila sunrise


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:03 pm 
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Not an advantage on those boats. The 17, on the other hand, is designed to sail main only. That boat points better without the jib.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:12 pm 
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Unless I'm mistaken, the Tiger and Wildcat both have fully battened jibs, so furling isn't an option. The 20 can be fitted with a furler, but it doesn't furl cleanly due to the leech battens, so probably pretty draggy.

For average sailing conditions, I think your boatspeed is going to suffer overall without the jib.

I've only ever raced with a furled jib on an 18 and it has to be blowing HARD for it to be effective. Basically it has to be so windy that your jib would just be flogging anyway- otherwise you'll be faster with the jib out even if it does have a slight pocket in the leading edge. You want to run through all your other options first- double trap, bottom out the downhaul, sheet hard, travel out, crack the jib. If you've done all this, you're travelled out 12 to 18 inches, and you're still getting hammered, then it's time to roll up the jib.

Upwind you'll do ok without the jib (although the helm will probably be a little heavy). Downwind you'll get killed- the jib really does provide the afterburners downwind for non-spin boats.

sm


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:07 pm 
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Their advantage is they can drop the jib and leave the naked forstay. Also the wing advantage will point higher without the jib.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:36 am 
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The USA boat is a TRI, big difference. Looks to be a better design than the cat. I would like to see them race in big wind. But finally multi's in the cup. Our 88 boat was brilliant also i think faster than the cat used in this race!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:00 pm 
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The jib helps to keep the wing from stalling in the light air/low speed accelleration and allows backwinding to bring the bow around if the boat is in irons. Once the boat is up to full speed, and a tacking duel is not happening, the boat no longer needs the helper jib. Remember, the apparent wind this boat generates is just a little better than you see on any of the Hobies.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:13 pm 
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dwight916 wrote:
From the America's Cup 2010 Race 1 Summary: (Oracle Trimaran beat Alinghi Catamaran)

"even when sailing bare-headed after the Americans dropped their jib and showed less drag, greater speed."

Has anyone tried this with a Hobie?
Would this be an advantage for a Hobie 20? Tiger? Wild Cat?

With a Hobie 20 with the big main, I could see how in a heavier wind furling the jib may actually help but with the size of our jibs, the drag may be worse with it furled.

Oracle also stalled above the start line just before the Gun- Makes me feel better for these pros doing what happened to me a few times last year in light winds.

Full Report is here:

http://www.cupinfo.com/en/americas-cup- ... report.php



I’ve thought about this on the 16 before and I think it probably has the potential to be faster in windy conditions. At 25 knots, for example, you are just trying to get rid of the jib by traveling it out. If you could actually get it down I think it would be faster due to reduced drag, as you pointed out. This is all assuming you don’t rake the mast too much. Basically you would need to put the jib halyard down at the tack and pull the mast forward (or have a very short forestay). So this gets you going faster upwind, until you have to tack. You will probably be five boat lengths slower in each tack (if not more). You will also give up some down wind unless it’s about 25 knots sustained. In this condition you would be sailing so low that the jib is basically behind the main anyway.
I was thinking I should have tried this at the last Madcatter but without the jib the boat may just be too hard to control to make it work. What I am thinking about is putting reefing points in one of my main sails. That may have won the last Madcatter.

BTW: I'm so happy that the 16 class still runs races when it's nuking.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:16 am 
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As mainly a non racing hobie sailor I have had lots of experience sailing without the jib and or reefing the main. In sustained 30 mph wind on a flat prairie lake the 16 will scream with a reefed main.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:20 am 
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BobMerrick wrote:
dwight916 wrote:
BTW: I'm so happy that the 16 class still runs races when it's nuking.


Nuking is one thing. When the air and water temperature don't add up to 100 degrees (like they did at MadCatter), that's another. :shock:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:43 am 
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What people tend to forget BMWO won because, They trained on Hobies!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:26 pm 
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I remember at a few Hobie 20 NA's when it was windy there were some people sailing without their jibs on windy days (I believe Wayne Mooneyham was one of them). From what I remember they were actually able to hang pretty good upwind but would get killed downwind.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:39 pm 
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Since the AC boats were sailing at speeds of around 18 to 25knts in about 7 to 10 kts true windspeed, the apparant wind on the boats was such that they were essentially sailing upwind around the entire course. Slower boats like beach cats need a jib (or better yet a spinnaker) in order to maintain airspeed on the downwind legs.

sm


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