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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:22 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz
Here is a link to the St Francis YC who will be hosting this years event. You'll find info on accomodations, etc. Hope to see you there!

http://www.stfyc.com/default.aspx?p=Dyn ... 051&b=1&sl

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:55 pm 
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Location: Long Beach, CA
I am pretty sure that there will not be a class of Tigers at the event. There were only two registered as of today. I was one and Jason the other. Jason showed interest in sailing the 17s event as there were not enough Tigers to call it a North Americans. I called my crew and the yacht club and withdrew due to the lack of interest in the Tiger's showing.

Later,
Dan DeLave


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:40 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA
I realize the club is not "RV friendly". Is that it? Is it too expensive? Is the Bay too windy? What's up?

I mean, here you have THE St. Francis Yacht Club -- certainly the most prestigious yacht club on the west coast, and arguably second to none in the U.S. except the New York Yacht Club. And you thumb your nose at them?

If there are issues with the venue, why weren't these issues addressed months ago rather than a week or two before the event?

This faux NA is not good PR for the class. I fear it could come back to haunt Hobie Cat later....as in "No way we want to host your regatta. Look what you did to St. Francis." I mean, if you want to blast Backwater Yacht Club, that is one thing. But the St. Francis? Their tentacles reach up and down the entire west coast and beyond.

Not a smooth move, guys, in my opinion.

Sorry to be sour grapes, and I hope my fears are proved wrong. But I figure I better voice them now while we have a chance to do any damage control.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:29 am 
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Man, that's a bummer. I can't believe there are no more local (CA) teams signed up.

I think I speak for quite a few east coast teams. We would be there if the regatta was not scheduled in the middle of our season here. We mentioned this last year when the NAs where in Monterey.

Up in the northeast the racing season lasts only three months and taking the time to drive cross country in the middle of it is not worth it to most teams. We would have gladly made the trip later in the year.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:48 pm 
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Location: Long Beach, CA
San Francisco is perceived to be a tough venue to sail the Tiger in. Several people looked up the wind and sea conditions at that time of year in The Bay and passed around the information. It became well known, among the sailors, that winds in excess of 22 knots everyday would be the norm. The Tiger is not built like a tank. 16s, 17s and 18s are all built for surf-like conditions. This one is a rather delicate boat even though it is almost 400 lbs. The rig is not stayed to look good, it needs the support. There were many boats in the Worlds in Santa Barbara that got wrecked. I think that people are caring more for their $16,000 investments than to show up at an event that most sailors are sure will break something on the boat or even the crew.

The St Francis Yacht Club has a big event already taking the prime time of October so that could not be a choice. Also, this was supposed to coincide with a Little Americas Cup event that was going on the week before, since cancelled.

We are by no means thumbing our noses at the Yacht Club. This is more a matter of talking to the sailors to make sure they are good with an event, time and situations. There has been concern, as Ollie mentioned, for a long time. I tried to rally the troops but there has to be a critical mass before the commitments happen.

I give my sincerest apologies to the St Francis Yacht Club.

Later,
Dan


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 Post subject: Lots of factors
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:07 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz
We cancelled some of the volunteers, and found a few Tiger sailors some 17's. There were lots of factors involved. I heard opinons form all sides. Several months ago, I contacted some of the yc organizers and told them about the concernes regarding the high winds and one organizer told me that we could arange to halt racing when it blew above 23 kts, so the "broken boat argument" was adressed somewhat.

For the winds, I don't remember that many broken boats at the Worlds in SB, and I saw way more wind and chop there than the Bay usually brings on--and I've been sailing the Bay for almost 20 years. To me, from the perspective of being on the water the whole time in a chase boat, SB was extreme. From what I saw at the Worlds, the Tiger is able to take it!!! I think we had around 80 boats and I can't remember but 2 or 3 catastrophic break-downs.

You're right Peter STFYC is bummed...

We should learn from what happened and not let it happen again.

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 Post subject: The Next Step
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:18 pm 
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What the Tiger class really needs right now is to have a group of Tiger sailors propose an event for next year.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:02 pm 
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Location: Commerce Twp, Michigan
:( It is unfortunate that the Tiger NA's were cancelled due to the lack of participation. That makes two years running without a Tiger North American championship. In 2005 the top US finisher at the Worlds in Santa Barbara was crowned champion and now 2006 is cancelled. Is the Tiger class now relegated to the F18 NA's only? I agree with Bob that the Tiger class should put something on the schedule and soon.

It's not the Bay Area venue or the StFYC. I've raced in the Bay Area for many, many years and enjoyed it. Yes, the conditions to some may be "sporty" but the Tiger can handle it no problem. The boat was designed for the higher wind conditions of Europe. Even Jacques admitted after the Cangas Worlds that he and Greg need to work on their heavy air sailing. Can't really do that in SoCal unless your storm sailing during the winter months.

I feel the lack of participation is due to the timing of the event. Right after the Cangas Worlds and before the F18 NA's. I concur with Olli that a lot more eastern teams would attend if the event wasn't scheduled in the middle of our already short sailing season here in the midwest and northeast. Other reasons include the time committment to drive cross-country, fuel costs and the availablity of charter boats. I've always been a proponent of having the NA's in the fall. Maybe that would work better in the future.

At least the 17's will be racing and Matt will have fat-boy wind. Good luck in your title defense Matt.

John Bauldry
Hobie Tiger #1704


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 Post subject: Tiger NAs
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:19 am 
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Fellows
It might be a good time to read this.

http://www.ussailing.org/member/library ... lasses.htm

I don't mean to talk gloom and doom and I don't think the Tiger is about die but I do think Bob's comments are right on. If the Tiger sailors want to have an event next year it is time for you to start talking to your class officers right now. The class has a hard time trying to find people willing to put in the work to host these events. I know for a fact that Lori Mohney put in a lot of time trying to make this happen at St. Francis YC.

As my mother used to say, "it's time to (censored) or get off the pot. "

Rich


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:03 am 
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Maybe it's time the HCA-NA worked with the F18 class.
If the Nationals were held together there could be a F18 champion and a Tiger champion at the same event.
In general I think it's time we allowed the F18's to sail at HCA events provided the sailors are HCA members. The Tiger is an F18 afterall.
It doesn't add a start to the regatta and it would be a huge good will gesture to the sailing community.

The 3 main classes are the 16, 17 and Tiger.
For the Tiger to not have a NAC is just bad news

My two cents from a wannabe Tiger guy.

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Pat Bisesi
Fleet 204 Syracuse, NY


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:52 am 
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pbisesi wrote:
Maybe it's time the HCA-NA worked with the F18 class.
If the Nationals were held together there could be a F18 champion and a Tiger champion at the same event.
In general I think it's time we allowed the F18's to sail at HCA events provided the sailors are HCA members. The Tiger is an F18 afterall.
It doesn't add a start to the regatta and it would be a huge good will gesture to the sailing community.

The 3 main classes are the 16, 17 and Tiger.
For the Tiger to not have a NAC is just bad news

My two cents from a wannabe Tiger guy.


I proposed that three years ago and was voted down. I tried to bring up a related idea two years ago and was voted down again.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:21 am 
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There are 34 F18's registered for the nationals.
There are no Tiger NAC's
The Nacra nationals has 5 - F18's.

Half the F18's at the Nationals are Tigers.
Having the F18 Nationals and the H16 in back to back weeks is not good for either event. We should work with them.

This should be looked at again. Maybe the Division chairs can take it to the fleets and get some feedback.

The 16's 17's and maybe F18/Tiger need to at least try to have a couple of weeks between events.

I would also like to hear from Matt Miller. Is Hobie Cat Co. opposed to such an idea? I do relize how much they do for us.

I don't feel like it will hurt HCA or Hobie Cat Co. but increase membership and once again improve the HCA reputation with the sailing community which looks at the Hobie only "edict" as it's called as us thumbing our nose at them.
I am not looking for open boats, just explore the F18 issue.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:26 am 
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In Divisions 7 and 14, the "big" classes are 20, 17 and 16, very few Tigers. On the borders of these Divisions are CRAW, CRAM and the Texas coast. The F18 nationals in Lake Carlyle, IL...how convenient is that? Div. 14 will have two or three boats in attendance, that's not a good sign.

I believe opening the Tiger starts to all F18's would certainly build Tiger numbers between these borders.

With the "faux pas" of this years' Nationals, maybe it's time to vote again?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:38 am 
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Location: Commerce Twp, Michigan
Another data point to consider regarding the lack of participation is that a California venue was chosen for the third year in a row...2004-Monterey, 2005-Santa Barbara and 2006-San Francisco. Granted, Santa Barbara was the Worlds and it was awesome (OK, I'm biased a bit because SB is my hometown). But that makes it difficult to go west year after year for the eastern Tigers. What about a venue that is in the middle someplace? FL (Pensacola?) TX (Lake Texoma?) MI (St. Joseph, La Salle, Traverse City?) WI (Racine?) IL (Lake Carlyle?) with a September or October date? Each of these venues has hosted a past NAC of one class or another.

Regarding Pat's idea of allowing all F18's into Hobie only events has a lot of merit. But it is a highly charged political subject. I'm going to sit on the fence about that one...only because Tigers have the luxury of having it both ways...one design or F18. I don't know if we have that luxury anymore.

John Bauldry
Commodore, Hobie Fleet 276
Detroit, MI
Hobie Tiger #1704


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:58 am 
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John: I'll bet you can count the people against it on one hand.
I have been asking people for a couple of years and you were the first that said you were not sure. All others have said they are for it.

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