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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:35 pm 
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Location: Florida
Got an old Hobie kayak sail - put it on your Island!

Pretty EZ to do.

Take your Island sail and unroll it on ground to expose the main center of the sail. Attach a very small pulley to the top of your Island mast. Nothing fancy, just tie the pulley to the top mast strap using a small cord - pulley should be on the front of the mast so that when used it faces the bow of the boat when mail sail is totally unfurled.

Next get about a approx. 30 foot length of small rope - nothing extreme, almost clothsline in size, just make it less thick than the main sheet lines. Attach a light stainless steel spring clip to one end of the line. Run the line through the pulley on the top of the mast. Both the spring clip and line end should terminate at the top of the spool. This is your up haul line.

When not using the jib sail, the uphaul line remains clipped and does not interfere with any function of the main sail, including rolling it up.

Ok now attaching the jib.
The small Hobie kayak sail has a bungie on the tack end (bottom) that gets attached to your bow handle.
You need to have 2 ropes attached ~ 15 feet to the eye (clew) of the sail. more about those later.

When ready to attach the jib you do have to unfurl the sail.
With the sail unfurled, detach the uphaul line and clip it to the head of the jib sail. Hobies kayak sail has a top strap to which I used a small loop of rope to allow the clip attach easily.

Pull down on the uphaul line to raise the jib. Tie off the line to the forward xbar brace. The 2 lines in tipical jib rigging are split - one line goes to the left of the mast, one to the right. I just looped them through the ama handles and back to the cockpit.

Now one of the advantages of having a bungie attachment from the jib to the bow handle is to allow a little "give" should you get an unexpected gust of wind.

Biggest advantage is use in light wind for all points. In down wind in heavy air I can put main sail on one side and jib on the other - it takes on a nice cupped shape as the bungie gives a little. Works well in a broad reach in good wind. Jib seemed to be most finnicky about upwind in windy conditions.

This project needs to have some additions and tweaks. Maybe a small pulley attached to each ama handle, perhaps adding a port and starbord line harkin cleat for each jib rope. Maybe the ama handle is not even the best angle for the 2 jib lines and the front ama loops would be better.

Anyway - here are the pics!

Image


Image


Not only does the jib work, it looks snappy. The "Hobie" name on the jib is at the same angle as the "Hobie" on the main sail.

EDIT: Changed lengths of rope from original post - forgot to allow for double length.


Last edited by Yakaholic on Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:46 pm 
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Yak, looks fantastic -- what a brilliant idea! How does the helm feel with both sails? Is it possible to reef the main with the jib up, once set? I'm guessing not. Does it affect the attitude of the bow at all? 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:42 am 
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Roadrunner wrote:
Yak, looks fantastic -- what a brilliant idea! How does the helm feel with both sails? Is it possible to reef the main with the jib up, once set? I'm guessing not. Does it affect the attitude of the bow at all? 8)


Already having the jib sail - it was a pretty cheap project! :)

If you loosen the uphaul line you can reef in the main sail and the uphaul line gets wrapped around the sail. Useful for a emergency way to reef the sail but cumbersome. If you don't loosen the uphaul enough you can't reef in all the way - too much and you have a sloppy/luffing jib.

Jib uphaul lines are designed to be deployed after main is all unrolled; and clipped back in place (jib removed) before proper furling.

The cure for that would be a small rotating plate fixed to the top of the mast - like a small lazy susan. The mast would then rotate under the plate - leaving the jib attched and the main to be rolled up.

Sailing upwind in heavy air caused the jib to be difficult in "picking a side". The bungie at the bottom might require doubleing up, shortening, or removing entirely (too much stretch). Perhaps also the angle of the line out to the ama handle was too great. Lighter air upwind was not so much of a problem.

Jib definitely added some additional "get up an go". Turning boat around was interesting, you could easily change sides of the jib, but the extra sail made the rudder feel "small". Probable just need more time getting used to making turns with the jib. Helm felt fine otherwise, once under sail.

With the wind behind me on a broad reach or running it was great! The jib's bungie allowed the sail to nicely cup infront of the boat in almost spinnaker fashion. Fastest being main on one side jib on the other.

Normally downwind with just the main sail the nose is a little low, in fact it will submarine at times. With the jib the nose seemed to be higher and at least on my test runs did not submarine at all.

My wind for tests were 5 - 12mph with maybe a gust or two to 15mph.

Because the main mast is flexible you could see the jib trim change slightly as you changed the main sheet trim. If you tightened the main sheet you would pull back on the jib's uphaul line (as the mast bent towards the stern). But I saw no adverse affect on main's sail shape or ability to trim properly. The fact that main sheet line pulls in the opposite direction to the jib uphaul should give jib support. On downwind sailing the main sheet line is very loose, allowing the jib uphaul to become looser, allowing it to cup nicely.

When first attaching and setting the jib uphaul I was careful not to apply too much pressure so as to bend the mast, but enough pressure to make the bungie and uphaul line taught.

I don't believe it wise to use the jib in anything over 15mph, but maybe a Hobie tester/engineer might want to calculate & experiment with how much stress the mast will take. :wink:

Hobie will continue to make it's small kayak sail, so they have a ready supply of jibs for the Island if they want to fabricate a proper Island jib kit. The small kayak sail comes in red, yellow, white or blue. Looks like it belongs on the Island

PS I edited my rope lengths above.

Yakaholic


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:12 pm 
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Yak,

I have been experimenting with a way to attach something to the top of the mast that maintains the ability to furl the main as needed for a spinnaker or jib or whatever. Currently, I have a long (12" – 13â€


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:19 pm 
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One word Yak....fantastic. Not only does it serve a useful purpose but it looks so natural. Why is it that the best ideas are often so simple? Good man, great job.

Keep us posted on your sea trials!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:21 pm 
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Very interesting robertse....I suppose you could also mount a wind vane in the same manner and doubtless someone here can modify it so we can brew coffee on the water!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:30 pm 
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Upyaboya,

I guess I like the tinkering part better than anything else - I have read the ideas kicking around this forum about a disc or plate of some kind at the top and am tinkering with that as well. Not sure how I would ever use either idea except for the same applicaton that Yak was talking about... I have been curious about adding an asymetrical spinnaker to the front end of the adventure island similar to what is seen in the TRIAK videos so that's really what spawned my curiousity! I agree with your reply to Yak - simpler is better so I am not so sure about my lightning rod idea - esp in the lightning capital of the U.S.!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:42 pm 
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robertse,

It's the tinkering that's so invaluable. I haven't the ability to do what you and others do but I constantly marvel and enjoy your creations. Better still, I don't feel stupid for saying 'I don't know how to do that?' or 'How did you do that?'.

I think you've hit something that's useful to all of us whether it be a lightning rod, a jib hoist, a wind vane, or a humble flagpost so we can all fly the flag.

No, it's the imagination and determination to try something and share it that makes your post and others so interesting.

Keep it going and don't stop.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:41 pm 
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[quote="robertse"]Yak,

I have been experimenting with a way to attach something to the top of the mast that maintains the ability to furl the main as needed for a spinnaker or jib or whatever. Currently, I have a long (12" – 13â€


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:13 pm 
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Yak,

I agree with your observations completely - hence the need to (carefully) play more! I esp. don't like tying into a plastic piece and I think the leverage aspect could be an issue too which is why I orginally tried a short stubby piece thinking that it would get more down pressure rather than side pressure against the wall of the mast / cap. However, that model didn't have enough height and pressure to keep it from spinning with the mast itself or getting tangled up with the sail when furling.

Overall, it may be good enough to fly some colors or attract lightning but I am hopeful some other tinkering types chime with some thoughts or better yet, something tangible with the rotating disc idea - once again though is how exactly to tie into the top of the mast...



Rob


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:22 pm 
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Upyaboya wrote:
robertse,

It's the tinkering that's so invaluable.

Keep it going and don't stop.


It's the "chase" of the modifications and tinkering in my garage that's solice to me - but I should also get busy doing so kayaking / sailing too!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:36 pm 
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Now that sounds like a good idea with a little tinkering on the side!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:28 am 
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have you madmen (geniuses) considered making your own top half of the two piece mast? it may help solve some of the problems with using something that is not designed to be modified. with your own mast you can have the flexibility to add whatever you'd like to make your idea work. using a two piece windsurfing mast may be a way to experiment without making permanent changes to an expensive piece of kit. there is much unused, unloved windsurfing gear out there. i'm better at following directions than coming up with engineering solutions so keep at it fellas. this is a very interesting mod.
while you're at it make it a roller reefing jib.


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 Post subject: awesome
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:43 pm 
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just awesome

when sailing down wind with the sail acting like a kite does it create lift in the front to pull you up and over the waves?

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 Post subject: Re: awesome
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:09 pm 
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yakman wrote:
just awesome

when sailing down wind with the sail acting like a kite does it create lift in the front to pull you up and over the waves?


Normally downwind with just the main sail the nose is a little low, in fact it will submarine at times. With the jib the nose seemed to be higher and, at least on my test runs, did not submarine at all.


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